Author Topic: Bend Alloy/Cadmium  (Read 5106 times)

Nikomis

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Re: Bend Alloy/Cadmium
« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2012, 01:41:22 PM »
The rules actually cover the interaction, for the tabletop. From the Cadmium section, p. 362:

Quote
If your bubble overlaps a Bendalloy bubble, time is either slower in the
overlapping area (if your time differential is higher than that of the Bendalloy
bubble), or faster (if the Bendalloy bubble’s time differential is higher). The actual
differential is equal to the higher minus the lower.

Example: Syl is a Pulser with a time-bubble set to 20 minutes (one minute
inside equals 20 minutes outside). She unexpectedly crosses paths with Glim,
whose Bendalloy bubble is set to 5 minutes (five minute inside the bubble equals
one minute outside). Their bubbles overlap and within the joined area time slows
to one minute inside equaling 15 minutes in the outside world.

Agent 333

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Re: Bend Alloy/Cadmium
« Reply #16 on: January 10, 2012, 01:49:57 PM »
Ok, so according to the game at least, then Venn Diagram rules are in effect. You can do some interesting stuff with that...
When all your problems are nails, all your tools start looking like hammers.

Stubbazubba

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Re: Bend Alloy/Cadmium
« Reply #17 on: February 12, 2012, 07:07:57 PM »
The wording of the Bendalloy/Cadmium bubbles seems ambiguous to me:  Are bubbles necessarily extended in a sphere with the Slider/Pulser at the epicenter when they are put up, or can you put up an oblong speed bubble, allowing you to run in a line between point A and point B without allowing enemies nearby in?  The rules say that the bubble is centered on you, so that seems to indicate that it's a sphere, but I'm not sure.

Also, when can you put up a speed bubble?  If you can put one up at the end of your turn, and then keep it up until your next turn, that gives you a heck of a lot of extra dice every single turn.  Seems a bit OP, to me.  But the alternative, forcing you to concentrate to put up a speed bubble, reduces it's utility to near 0, it would seem.  Am I interpreting things totally incorrectly, or have you all encountered this as well?  If the latter, what did you do about it?

Agent 333

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Re: Bend Alloy/Cadmium
« Reply #18 on: February 13, 2012, 04:37:50 AM »
They're always spherical, according to Alloy of Law.
When all your problems are nails, all your tools start looking like hammers.

ReaderAt2046

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Re: Bend Alloy/Cadmium
« Reply #19 on: February 13, 2012, 07:44:41 AM »

That said, bendalloy is scary good.  A mistborn tacking their Bendalloy rating onto every ranged attack they make is just plain scary.  Which means I'm setting the price of vials around 3 and not allowing them as props unless that's the only metal the person can burn.

Um, I think you're forgetting something. The kinetic distortion at the edge of the bubble means that the defender gains the same number of dice as the attacker. So, no bonus (or at least a much smaller one).

Aminar

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Re: Bend Alloy/Cadmium
« Reply #20 on: February 13, 2012, 10:24:19 AM »
Not when the bubble drops.

Raise Bubble.  Pick Targets.  Aim.  Drop Bubble.  Add Bendalloy rating to attack.  Rinse. Repeat.  As far as I can tell nothing stops this from working short of closing in on the mistborn, which isn't necessarily easy.

Dreamstreamer

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Re: Bend Alloy/Cadmium
« Reply #21 on: February 13, 2012, 11:25:35 AM »
Not when the bubble drops.

Raise Bubble.  Pick Targets.  Aim.  Drop Bubble.  Add Bendalloy rating to attack.  Rinse. Repeat.  As far as I can tell nothing stops this from working short of closing in on the mistborn, which isn't necessarily easy.

Why would you get the bolded after the bubble has been dropped? Wouldn't the bonus disappear when the bubble does, as the bonus only applies when the character in the bubble takes an action against someone outside the bubble? No bubble, no bonus. At least, that is how I interpret the rules for Bendalloy.

Stubbazubba

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Re: Bend Alloy/Cadmium
« Reply #22 on: February 13, 2012, 11:56:58 AM »
That would render it completely useless, then, wouldn't it?  You can't really attack someone outside of the bubble from within the bubble, without either dropping it or stepping through it (thus losing your Beat), so you would, in fact, never apply that Bendalloy rating to any action, it would seem.  The only reason they would even put that rule in there is if you still get the bonus when you drop the bubble and then attack, which means you are all of a sudden very scary, because not only do you get to add your Bendalloy rating to your Wits for purposes of declaration, you also add it to any and all attacks, so you're likely to be the last to declare and the first to act, almost every Beat.  In addition, you get free Defense Dice.  Someone tell me I'm reading something wrong.

Crafty_Alex

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Re: Bend Alloy/Cadmium
« Reply #23 on: February 13, 2012, 11:57:22 AM »
On this one it's simple - no bubble, no bonus. So dropping and raising a bubble to jack your bonuses won't work.
"Alex doesn't feel anything. He's more word processor than man anymore." - Krensky

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Dreamstreamer

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Re: Bend Alloy/Cadmium
« Reply #24 on: February 13, 2012, 12:14:03 PM »
That would render it completely useless, then, wouldn't it?

That depends on how you define useless. In the novel, Alloy of Law, Wayne uses the bubble to hold a short conversation with Wax right under the nose of some guests. Now, if your definition only includes physical conflicts, it is less useful as an "I win!" button. That's what Atium is for!  ;)

Aminar

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Re: Bend Alloy/Cadmium
« Reply #25 on: February 13, 2012, 12:42:48 PM »
Not when the bubble drops.

Raise Bubble.  Pick Targets.  Aim.  Drop Bubble.  Add Bendalloy rating to attack.  Rinse. Repeat.  As far as I can tell nothing stops this from working short of closing in on the mistborn, which isn't necessarily easy.

Why would you get the bolded after the bubble has been dropped? Wouldn't the bonus disappear when the bubble does, as the bonus only applies when the character in the bubble takes an action against someone outside the bubble? No bubble, no bonus. At least, that is how I interpret the rules for Bendalloy.
The idea is that you have time to watch and observe, plan and aim.  The bonus isn't from the speed, its from what you can do while you watch the world around you in slow motion.

That's the point of the bubble.

Aminar

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Re: Bend Alloy/Cadmium
« Reply #26 on: February 13, 2012, 12:45:57 PM »
On this one it's simple - no bubble, no bonus. So dropping and raising a bubble to jack your bonuses won't work.
Wait.  So then what's the point of the bonus.  You aren't supposed to be able to fire out of a bubble reliably at all.  I feel like that's really counter-intuitive to have the rules then.  I'll have to reread the rules after work, but I can't imagine the logic on only getting the bonus while the bubble is up having read Alloy of Law.

Crafty_Alex

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Re: Bend Alloy/Cadmium
« Reply #27 on: February 13, 2012, 02:05:11 PM »
On this one it's simple - no bubble, no bonus. So dropping and raising a bubble to jack your bonuses won't work.
Wait.  So then what's the point of the bonus.  You aren't supposed to be able to fire out of a bubble reliably at all.  I feel like that's really counter-intuitive to have the rules then.  I'll have to reread the rules after work, but I can't imagine the logic on only getting the bonus while the bubble is up having read Alloy of Law.

I'll need to reread it too, then.
"Alex doesn't feel anything. He's more word processor than man anymore." - Krensky

"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication" - Leonardo da Vinci

A reminder.

Alex Flagg
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Dreamstreamer

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Re: Bend Alloy/Cadmium
« Reply #28 on: February 13, 2012, 02:36:16 PM »
The idea is that you have time to watch and observe, plan and aim.  The bonus isn't from the speed, its from what you can do while you watch the world around you in slow motion.

That's the point of the bubble.

I would think that there is a point of diminishing returns on such actions, especially aiming. Will having five minutes to aim make more of a difference than five seconds if the world outside the bubble is none the wiser and remains (reasonably) static?

Wait.  So then what's the point of the bonus.  You aren't supposed to be able to fire out of a bubble reliably at all.  I feel like that's really counter-intuitive to have the rules then.  I'll have to reread the rules after work, but I can't imagine the logic on only getting the bonus while the bubble is up having read Alloy of Law.

Perhaps for instances outside of physical conflicts? Legerdemain, for example. Scadrial is all about secrets, right? Basically, anything mentioned on the bottom paragraph of 365 and the top paragraph of 366. Note that none of the examples mention combat.

The bonus provided by Bendalloy is significantly better than a circumstance bonus due to the favorable condition of extra time. Normally, it would take two favorable circumstances to get even a single extra die. Bendalloy offers extra dice based on its rating. Perhaps it is that the Slider knows how to best use the extra time and doesn't have to worry about others taking advantage of the same amount of extra time? After all, nobody outside the bubble gets to use that extra time. Whereas, with the circumstance modifier, though the character is taking extra time for an advantage, others can still act normally and take advantage of the extra time, too.

Aminar

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Re: Bend Alloy/Cadmium
« Reply #29 on: February 13, 2012, 08:24:10 PM »
Alex, I PM'd you and Pat my opinion.  Wasn't sure on the ethics of posting Citations from Alloy and didn't want a full blown debate of my opinion starting.  Thanks for reading it.