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Author Topic: Lets talk about Feruchemists  (Read 5815 times)
Skywalker
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« Reply #75 on: January 11, 2012, 05:15:17 PM »

Between this page, the typo/correction page, and Errata, it's a lot of places to look for once fix. Did this pooling issue ever get worked out?

I myself was leaning to the 1 tap/dice up to 10, then +5 per nudge ruling, since in a few places the tapping is done WHEN you go to roll, meaning the 10 cap was already in place. (The rollover of extra dice would then only apply to dice from the initial pool over 10, IMO.)

Yes, though the exact fix has not been confirmed.

It seems most people want to go with allowing 10 charges to get extra dice, and thereafter +5 per Nudge. This will mean you will get a few extra Nudges from those 10 charges as with your Physique it will knock you over 10 dice. So if you have Physique 3 then you can can tap up to 13 dice, creating a dice pool of 10 and 3 Nudges.

I preferred the method, especially since the clarification of dice pools in Combat, where you can tap charges until you hit 10 dice and thereafter Nudges cost 5 charges. It just removes any overlap from Nudges from dice over 10 and from 5 Charges, which I think is simpler. On saying that, the first option does tie nicely with the description of Feruchemy with narrative effects over 10 charges.

Either works fine.
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ZetaStriker
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« Reply #76 on: January 11, 2012, 05:43:36 PM »

I was under the impression the fix was to tap charges to get up to 10 dice, not tap 10 charges for 10 dice/nudges.
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Skywalker
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« Reply #77 on: January 11, 2012, 06:02:40 PM »

I could be wrong, but I argued for the solution you submit but most people seemed to prefer the idea of tapping up to 10 charges for dice, not tapping charges up to 10 dice.

Looking back upthread, Crafty seem to be going with the solution you proposed, i.e. you can only tap charges for dice up to the 10 dice max, but a majority of posters (starting on the bottom of page 3 - Bill Whitmore, Aminar, Leviathan and yourself  Huh? ) seem to prefer the idea that you can tap up to 10 charges for dice and thereafter 5 per Nudge.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2012, 06:10:47 PM by Skywalker » Logged
ZetaStriker
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« Reply #78 on: January 11, 2012, 06:33:24 PM »

I was on the "up to 10 dice" train from the beginning - I think my first post here was agree with your proposed "option 2", which stated exactly that. I just don't think the "10 charge" limit makes logical sense, as 10 is just an arbitrary number in that case. When 10 is used with an "up to 10 dice" rule, it matches the size of a pool and makes logical sense. Besides, nudges are powerful enough that I'd be afraid of giving someone 6+ free nudges per action.
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Skywalker
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« Reply #79 on: January 11, 2012, 06:44:27 PM »

Ah cool, you did. Go option 2! Grin
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Aminar
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« Reply #80 on: January 11, 2012, 08:50:40 PM »

I could be wrong, but I argued for the solution you submit but most people seemed to prefer the idea of tapping up to 10 charges for dice, not tapping charges up to 10 dice.

Looking back upthread, Crafty seem to be going with the solution you proposed, i.e. you can only tap charges for dice up to the 10 dice max, but a majority of posters (starting on the bottom of page 3 - Bill Whitmore, Aminar, Leviathan and yourself  Huh? ) seem to prefer the idea that you can tap up to 10 charges for dice and thereafter 5 per Nudge.

Actually I did change my mind after thinking about the constant 13 dice feruchemist loop.
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Skywalker
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« Reply #81 on: January 11, 2012, 08:57:28 PM »

It's not really a loop though at 10 charges per action. But yeah, it would avoid that. Smiley
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Crafty_Alex
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« Reply #82 on: January 12, 2012, 12:00:07 PM »

For the time being assume a feruchemists can tap up to 10 dice using charges, and will need to tap 5 additional charges for a nudge or 10 additional charges to increase their outcome.
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« Reply #83 on: January 12, 2012, 02:25:11 PM »

For the time being assume a feruchemists can tap up to 10 dice using charges, and will need to tap 5 additional charges for a nudge or 10 additional charges to increase their outcome.

Wooty.
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Crafty_Alex
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« Reply #84 on: January 20, 2012, 09:37:26 PM »

A little preview of the pre-edits, more specific language on Feruchemy and when and how dice are spent...

Quote from: Book 2 Feruchemy Rules

TAPPING A METALMIND

To tap previously stored characteristics or abilities, a Feruchemist must be conscious and in direct contact with the metalmind he or she wishes to tap (again, a Feruchemist may only store in and tap his own metalminds, never anyone else’s). As while storing, a Feruchemist undergoes noticeable changes when tapping. For example, a Feruchemist tapping strength may grow more muscular, and one tapping sight may gain tunnel vision and possibly vertigo. The more charges are tapped at once, the more noticeable these changes become.

A Feruchemist may choose to tap anytime he or she takes an action or makes a roll. These charges are tapped after the action is declared and pools are formed (see “Dice Pools,” page 138), but before he or she rolls any dice. This allows the Feruchemist to fully assess the situation and take into account any Traits, Tools, or Circumstances which may apply to his or her roll before committing any charges to the effort.

Example: Damosi wants to lift a heavy bar from a door. Isaac, Damosi’s player, declares the action and Brandon tells him Damosi’s pool will be 5 dice — before he rolls any dice, Isaac will need to decide whether or not the Keeper will tap any stored strength to increase his chances of success.

When a single action involves multiple rolls, the Feruchemist must tap independently for each roll — he or she cannot tap once when dragging a large object, for example, and gain the benefits for each roll made to drag the object part of the distance. Nor can a Feruchemist tap once and gain the benefits for all rolls made in an Extended Contest.

A Feruchemist can tap charges from his or her metalminds in 3 different ways:

  • As individual charges, generally to increase his or her dice pool or otherwise enhance a personal attribute incrementally;
  • In groups of 5 to automatically add a Nudge to his or her action, in addition to any rolled;
  • In groups of 10, allowing him or her to increase the action’s Outcome and/or achieve a particularly impressive effect.

Details of how each of these styles of tapping work follow below.

The maximum number of stored charges that may be tapped for each action or roll is equal to 10 × the Feruchemist’s rating with that metal. A Feruchemist may tap any number of metalminds at a time, though only one of each metal for any action or roll. Tapped charges are immediately consumed, even if the current action or roll fails.

Example: Damosi is making a melee attack and taps the 4 charges of strength he previously stored in his Pewtermind. This is well below his tapping limit of 40 charges per action or roll (based on his Pewter rating of 4). The 4 charges are immediately consumed, even if Damosi’s attack misses.

TAPPING INDIVIDUAL CHARGES

The most common way Feruchemists tap charges is individually, typically to gain a slight edge or enhancement to their innate abilities. For example, a Feruchemist might tap a single charge of Copper to call forth a stored memory or a few charges of Steel to get a brief burst of physical speed.

When a Feruchemist taps individual charges, apply the effect described for that metal once for each charge tapped, plus any other special effects. For example, tapping stored weight from an ironmind increases a Feruchemist’s weight by 10% per charge, and also inflicts penalties to certain actions for every two charges tapped; thus, a Feruchemist tapping one charge of stored weight would increase his or her weight by 10%, while one tapping 4 charges of tapped weight would increase his or her weight by 40% and subtract two dice from Physique rolls to jump and climb, as described in the Iron Feruchemy entry.
 
Often, tapping individual charges may grant the Feruchemist additional dice to specific types of rolls, like a tapped charge of strength granting the Feruchemist an additional die to pick up a heavy weight or a charge of stored hearing adding a die when eavesdropping on a group of conspirators. However, a Feruchemist can only increase his or her dice pool to a maximum of 10 dice by spending charges in this way; the only way to gain Nudges to a roll using Feruchemy is by tapping for a Nudge (see below). Any dice in excess of 10 are ignored, though all other effects of tapping those charges (such as visual or mental alteration, etc.)still apply.

Example: Damosi’s dice pool for his melee attack is 6 dice. Damosi can increase his pool to 10 dice by tapping 4 charges of stored strength. If Damosi  chose to tap 5 or more charges of stored strength, his pool would still max out at 10 dice, though he might look even more burly or hulking than if he tapped just the 4 charges!
« Last Edit: January 20, 2012, 09:41:39 PM by Crafty_Alex » Logged

"Alex doesn't feel anything. He's more word processor than man anymore." - Krensky

"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication" - Leonardo da Vinci

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Alex Flagg
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« Reply #85 on: January 22, 2012, 02:28:04 AM »

Very nice.
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Nikomis
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« Reply #86 on: January 23, 2012, 10:15:48 AM »

Very specific without feeling forced. Thumbs-up.
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Crafty_Alex
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« Reply #87 on: January 23, 2012, 01:07:30 PM »

Thanks fellas. I made one revision after I posted this, where I'd been hesitant to call the situation of Conflicts out specifically. Here it is:

Quote from: Revised Paragraph 2 plus examples
A Feruchemist may choose to tap anytime he or she takes an action or makes a roll. These charges are tapped after the action is declared and pools are formed (see “Dice Pools,” page 138), but before he or she rolls any dice. During a Conflict, charges are tapped in Step 2: Resolve Actions, when the Feruchemist forms a pool from his or her Action Dice (see page 177). Tapping metalminds in this way allows the Feruchemist to fully assess the situation and take into account any Traits, Tools, or Circumstances which may apply to his or her roll before committing any charges to the effort.

Example: Damosi wants to lift a heavy safe from the floor. Isaac, Damosi’s player, declares the action and Brandon tells him Damosi’s pool will be 5 dice — before he rolls, Isaac will need to decide whether or not to tap any of the Keeper’s stored strength to increase his chances of success.

Example: Later, while defending the Crew’s hideout from raiders (a physical Conflict), Damosi declares he wants to knock a nearby bandit out with a single punch — and plans to used some stored strength to do so. He doesn’t tap any charges of strength until Step 2, when he forms a pool his Action Dice to make the attack.

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"Alex doesn't feel anything. He's more word processor than man anymore." - Krensky

"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication" - Leonardo da Vinci

A reminder.

Alex Flagg
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Skywalker
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« Reply #88 on: January 23, 2012, 01:45:31 PM »

I approve Smiley
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ReaderAt2046
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« Reply #89 on: January 26, 2012, 03:54:42 PM »


Can a Feruchemist partially stop storing? In other words, if Damosi didn't want to take the full three die hit in the fight, could he change his storage rate to one charge, lose one die, and then end with 5 charges (the 4 he had before, plus 1 stored during the fight)? He'd lose the two he stopped storing, of course.
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