Author Topic: Mistborn RPG Rules Questions  (Read 5122 times)

Skywalker

  • Operative
  • ****
  • Posts: 291
    • View Profile
Re: Mistborn RPG Rules Questions
« Reply #30 on: January 05, 2012, 11:31:36 AM »
I think that the way to handle it is that Cordal attacks Koel as normal. Cordal rolls Action Dice and Koel Defence Dice as its an Attack not a Contest. This would differ if Cordal was trying to pull a metal object out of Koel's hand, which would be a Contest as it is not trying to harm her.

Koel gets a free reaction of rolling Steel, in addition to her Defence Dice. Cordal must overcome both rolls. This reaction is like adding a Difficulty to the roll as explained under Contests.

Your approach would work as well, but would require a bit more dice rolling, which could bog down if there were many Lurchers or Coinshots in the fight.

We have yet to hear an official answer to this situation and correction to the example.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2012, 11:51:19 AM by Skywalker »

Baijo Gosum

  • Recruit
  • *
  • Posts: 47
    • View Profile
Re: Mistborn RPG Rules Questions
« Reply #31 on: January 05, 2012, 12:41:00 PM »
You said he must beat both rolls.  Do you mean the now larger single dice pool (defense + steal) or he must beat two independent dice pools?  Maybe the steal pool "setting a difficulty" that creates a situations similar to hitting the guards through the wall?

The reaction rules under steal allomancy state that if the reaction is successful the coins go somewhere other than the target.  If that roll succeeds would there be a need for defense dice?

I also decided I would let cordal react to koel's push.  The combat rules allow you to react to any attack that comes your way, and I'm seeing the steal/iron rules added an exception that allow allomancers to reach to projectile fire.   I would count these reactions as neg circumstances, similar to "char has all ready been successfully attacked this round and is distracted" circumstance on pg 195.

It will add more rolling, but if all of these actions/reactions are declared and dice pools made it should just be a matter of timing around the table.  Both Koel and Cordel have two pools ready.  One for their action and one for their reaction.  If the reaction roll dosn't go their way than they don't need to roll the action at all.


Skywalker

  • Operative
  • ****
  • Posts: 291
    • View Profile
Re: Mistborn RPG Rules Questions
« Reply #32 on: January 05, 2012, 12:49:17 PM »
You said he must beat both rolls.  Do you mean the now larger single dice pool (defense + steal) or he must beat two independent dice pools?  Maybe the steal pool "setting a difficulty" that creates a situations similar to hitting the guards through the wall?

Independent like a Difficulty in an Contest (where you need to beat the opposed roll result and Difficulty). Using an existing roll seems sensible to me.

I agree with you that it makes sense that if the Steel isn't beaten then then Defence isn't needed. I think that is just a matter of sequencing, which could be done with aproach i mentioned.

But as said, either approach seems to work.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2012, 12:54:14 PM by Skywalker »

Baijo Gosum

  • Recruit
  • *
  • Posts: 47
    • View Profile
Re: Mistborn RPG Rules Questions
« Reply #33 on: January 05, 2012, 12:57:44 PM »
Sorry for being so difficult lol but I guess I still am not sure what you mean.  Could you give an example?

It sounds like cordal has one pool of action dice and koel has two pools.  One for steel that will add a difficultly to cordal's actions and one of defense dice to try and beat his action.

Does this relate to a steel allomancers ability to react to projectiles at all?

Skywalker

  • Operative
  • ****
  • Posts: 291
    • View Profile
Re: Mistborn RPG Rules Questions
« Reply #34 on: January 05, 2012, 01:07:09 PM »
I would run it as Cordal rolls attack using his Action Dice (which is already based on Steel) as normal. Koel would roll her Steel first. If the attack didn't beat that, she could redirect as her Action. If the attack bet that, she would then roll Defence and could not redirect.

This does give her a small advantage in not having to split the first roll, but given its a reaction I imagine that Circumstances and Trait use would be almost never used, which would level it out. It would be a quick roll in a normal attack.

As said, your approach works too and has symmetry to it. I just find that it would be further away from the existing rules, add more rolling, and that additional rolling would be repetitive making it whiffy (Cordal is effectively rolling Steel twice).
« Last Edit: January 05, 2012, 01:09:24 PM by Skywalker »

Baijo Gosum

  • Recruit
  • *
  • Posts: 47
    • View Profile
Re: Mistborn RPG Rules Questions
« Reply #35 on: January 05, 2012, 01:24:11 PM »
I would run it as Cordal rolls attack using his Action Dice (which is already based on Steel) as normal. Koel would roll her Steel first. If the attack didn't beat that, she could redirect as her Action.

I see what you mean, so the redirect would become her action for the turn using the action dice she got when she declared her action?

Doesn't this kinda make the Reflect Ranged Attack stunt less useful?  If any one can redirect an attack with a steel v. steel contest they why take the stunt?

If the reflect stunt let you do it with out that using your action for the turn I could see it working

Crafty_Pat

  • Crafty Staff
  • Control
  • *****
  • Posts: 9880
  • We have all the time in the world.
    • View Profile
    • Crafty Games
Re: Mistborn RPG Rules Questions
« Reply #36 on: January 05, 2012, 03:16:41 PM »
I have continued the action/defense/reaction discussion over in the MAG Typos and Corrections thread. Please do not reply further here.

Meantime, let's look at the one other question in here that needs an answer...
Patrick Kapera
Crafty Games

UPDATES/PRESS INFO
Newsletter: http://bit.ly/14FJIw7
Facebook: www.facebook.com/craftygames
Google Plus: https://plus.google.com/+Crafty-Games/
Twitter: www.twitter.com/Crafty_Games
YouTube: www.youtube.com/craftyhomeoffice

In game terms, reality is broken.

Crafty_Pat

  • Crafty Staff
  • Control
  • *****
  • Posts: 9880
  • We have all the time in the world.
    • View Profile
    • Crafty Games
Re: Mistborn RPG Rules Questions
« Reply #37 on: January 05, 2012, 03:21:24 PM »
When using brass/zinc to manipulate someone's emotions, does it take a full beat to do or is it in addition to your normal action for a beat? The reason I am asking is because the bonus to your charm/influence rolls against the subject require that you continue to concentrate on them and keep burning the metal. If the beat length is, say, an hour or so that could be quite hard to keep the metal burning the entire time so you can get the bonus on your next beat (and thus take advantage of the bonus).

You aren't asking the important question actually. It's not a matter of whether it happens in addition to something else, it's whether it precludes other action - which it does. Concentration prevents you from doing anything else in the same Beat, and in keeping with the one action per Beat rule this means you can't also take another action (that requires a roll) in any Beat when you concentrate.
Patrick Kapera
Crafty Games

UPDATES/PRESS INFO
Newsletter: http://bit.ly/14FJIw7
Facebook: www.facebook.com/craftygames
Google Plus: https://plus.google.com/+Crafty-Games/
Twitter: www.twitter.com/Crafty_Games
YouTube: www.youtube.com/craftyhomeoffice

In game terms, reality is broken.

Akerbos

  • Jr. Agent
  • **
  • Posts: 63
    • View Profile
Re: Mistborn RPG Rules Questions
« Reply #38 on: January 06, 2012, 01:47:06 AM »
Would it be fair to say that an experience Soother/Rioter does not have to concentrate for basic manipulation?

Aminar

  • Agent
  • ***
  • Posts: 153
    • View Profile
Re: Mistborn RPG Rules Questions
« Reply #39 on: January 06, 2012, 07:49:33 AM »
Would it be fair to say that an experience Soother/Rioter does not have to concentrate for basic manipulation?
They have a stunt for that.  It gives them +1 Charm on anybody that can be soothed/rioted as long as they aren't using active allomancy on the roll.

Toloran

  • Recruit
  • *
  • Posts: 10
    • View Profile
Re: Mistborn RPG Rules Questions
« Reply #40 on: January 06, 2012, 08:38:13 AM »
When using brass/zinc to manipulate someone's emotions, does it take a full beat to do or is it in addition to your normal action for a beat? The reason I am asking is because the bonus to your charm/influence rolls against the subject require that you continue to concentrate on them and keep burning the metal. If the beat length is, say, an hour or so that could be quite hard to keep the metal burning the entire time so you can get the bonus on your next beat (and thus take advantage of the bonus).

You aren't asking the important question actually. It's not a matter of whether it happens in addition to something else, it's whether it precludes other action - which it does. Concentration prevents you from doing anything else in the same Beat, and in keeping with the one action per Beat rule this means you can't also take another action (that requires a roll) in any Beat when you concentrate.

That still doesn't answer the root of my question though.

The core of the question has to do with the burn rate of zinc/brass and long-ish beat lengths in social conflicts. With longer beat lengths (say an hour or two), zinc/brass become difficult to use since you can't take advantage of the bonus until the next beat (If I'm understanding this correctly). The reason this is a problem is that you have to burn multiple vials every beat and stay in range of the target to gain that bonus.

Actually, the core of my issue is the use of both a static duration (burn rates) and a highly variable "turn" duration (Beats). It just seems odd that a highly abstracted system uses very hard and specific numbers for burn rates (rather than something like "a number of beats").

Aminar

  • Agent
  • ***
  • Posts: 153
    • View Profile
Re: Mistborn RPG Rules Questions
« Reply #41 on: January 06, 2012, 09:48:04 AM »
When using brass/zinc to manipulate someone's emotions, does it take a full beat to do or is it in addition to your normal action for a beat? The reason I am asking is because the bonus to your charm/influence rolls against the subject require that you continue to concentrate on them and keep burning the metal. If the beat length is, say, an hour or so that could be quite hard to keep the metal burning the entire time so you can get the bonus on your next beat (and thus take advantage of the bonus).

You aren't asking the important question actually. It's not a matter of whether it happens in addition to something else, it's whether it precludes other action - which it does. Concentration prevents you from doing anything else in the same Beat, and in keeping with the one action per Beat rule this means you can't also take another action (that requires a roll) in any Beat when you concentrate.

That still doesn't answer the root of my question though.

The core of the question has to do with the burn rate of zinc/brass and long-ish beat lengths in social conflicts. With longer beat lengths (say an hour or two), zinc/brass become difficult to use since you can't take advantage of the bonus until the next beat (If I'm understanding this correctly). The reason this is a problem is that you have to burn multiple vials every beat and stay in range of the target to gain that bonus.

Actually, the core of my issue is the use of both a static duration (burn rates) and a highly variable "turn" duration (Beats). It just seems odd that a highly abstracted system uses very hard and specific numbers for burn rates (rather than something like "a number of beats").

If you have a Soother or Rioter in a social situation the DM should likely be setting the beats to match the allomancer's durration...

And also, they have a stunt for lasting emotions too.

This is another place where the DM should be making the story work more than the rules.  Were I having a social conflict like this odds are I'd have the soother burn 1/2 a charge per beat, given how much they speed up the social process.  From there the allomancy would affect their teamates actions for that beat.  In addition I'd likely give them micro beats where they could sooth or riot a variety of people because its supposed to represent schmoosing a lot of people.

Crafty_Pat

  • Crafty Staff
  • Control
  • *****
  • Posts: 9880
  • We have all the time in the world.
    • View Profile
    • Crafty Games
Re: Mistborn RPG Rules Questions
« Reply #42 on: January 06, 2012, 02:23:08 PM »
Actually, the core of my issue is the use of both a static duration (burn rates) and a highly variable "turn" duration (Beats). It just seems odd that a highly abstracted system uses very hard and specific numbers for burn rates (rather than something like "a number of beats").

That's fair. We're looking at it.
Patrick Kapera
Crafty Games

UPDATES/PRESS INFO
Newsletter: http://bit.ly/14FJIw7
Facebook: www.facebook.com/craftygames
Google Plus: https://plus.google.com/+Crafty-Games/
Twitter: www.twitter.com/Crafty_Games
YouTube: www.youtube.com/craftyhomeoffice

In game terms, reality is broken.

Aminar

  • Agent
  • ***
  • Posts: 153
    • View Profile
Re: Mistborn RPG Rules Questions
« Reply #43 on: January 06, 2012, 03:39:09 PM »
Actually, the core of my issue is the use of both a static duration (burn rates) and a highly variable "turn" duration (Beats). It just seems odd that a highly abstracted system uses very hard and specific numbers for burn rates (rather than something like "a number of beats").

That's fair. We're looking at it.
Were I you guys I would look at recommend beats based around the time periods metals burn in.
On the other hand, Feruchemists power holds for a number of beats... 

Crafty_Pat

  • Crafty Staff
  • Control
  • *****
  • Posts: 9880
  • We have all the time in the world.
    • View Profile
    • Crafty Games
Re: Mistborn RPG Rules Questions
« Reply #44 on: January 06, 2012, 04:07:38 PM »
Actually, the core of my issue is the use of both a static duration (burn rates) and a highly variable "turn" duration (Beats). It just seems odd that a highly abstracted system uses very hard and specific numbers for burn rates (rather than something like "a number of beats").

That's fair. We're looking at it.
Were I you guys I would look at recommend beats based around the time periods metals burn in.
On the other hand, Feruchemists power holds for a number of beats... 

...and different metals burn at different rates, so as soon as a Mistborn hits the table...

As I say, no simple solutions. We're on it.
Patrick Kapera
Crafty Games

UPDATES/PRESS INFO
Newsletter: http://bit.ly/14FJIw7
Facebook: www.facebook.com/craftygames
Google Plus: https://plus.google.com/+Crafty-Games/
Twitter: www.twitter.com/Crafty_Games
YouTube: www.youtube.com/craftyhomeoffice

In game terms, reality is broken.