MAG Typos and Corrections thread

[Crafty_Pat]

Yeah, I had it confused as well, just a quick clarification stating the differences between conflicts, challenges, and the lot might help.

In Crafty's defence, I can see on rereading those sections that they do seem similar. But there is a subtle difference which is quite large in effect.

In Challenges and Contests, the base pool is formed from a stat and then modifications added like circumstances and traits. It's the later two which may knock you over the 10 dice mark.

In Conflicts, the same process is instead partially applied in forming Action Dice, with modifications added at this stage effectively bypassing the normal free Nudges over 10 dice, and partially when the player forms the dice pools, with the 10 dice limit applying at this subsequent stage. It's almost in reverse.

This is why I think there needs to be something explicit to say the player forming dice pools in a Conflict can't voluntarily take advantage of the normal free Nudges for over 10 dice part of the process. I quite like the language of simply saying that on forming dice pools a player can't take advantage of the free Nudges for over 10 dice from Action or Defence Dice alone.

We'll give the Conflicts chapters another read with an eye toward firming this up. Thanks!

[Crafty_Pat]

It largely doesn't, but it's important to constantly reinforce the all-important rule that you only have one pool on the table, ever.  

I think what got me on the wrong track from the very beginning where the Extras' and Villain's records sheets (at which I looked before reading the rules). They have two areas, one for Action and one for Defense dice, suggesting that I can/should put dice onto both. Of course, the areas make perfect sense given the actual rules, just so you can keep track which Extra/Villain already acted.

Precisely.

once Action Dice are converted into Defense Dice you can no longer act in that Beat. You can react, and defend, but not act.

Agreed. Of course, catching the Beat would be the exception from the rule?

Yes. I may go back into that sidebar and mention catching a Beat there as well, to clarify.

Regarding the discussion about pools in Conflicts: This may sound dumb, but what is the reason for not being able to use extra dice to generate Nudges on your action? As it is, it creates different rules for rolls, confuses readers (at least the current presentation does). Also, would it not be cool to have Nudges in combat (for characters besides Feruchemists)? In the Challenges section, you have examples of Nudges improving the atmosphere; why not have that in combat? Nudges could have a character end up in a better position after his attack, break their opponents weapons or other equipment, just look very good doing their attack, etc pp. The advantage I gain is balanced by lesser defense ability in this Beat.

Mainly because Nudges are the fastest way to ramp up damage, and so letting people essentially guarantee minimum damage with each hit leads very quickly to untenable (and unfun) disparity, and that in turn leads to min-maxing and lots of folks suddenly claiming there's a "right" way to build characters. Not good.

Also, we want to preserve the function and weight of randomness in a system with an admittedly very narrow probability curve.

[Skywalker]

Awesome. Good result.

[Agent 333]

The PDF bookmarks for all the metal chapters have the type and push/pull in parenthesis except for Copper.

[ZetaStriker]

Sorry to beat a dead horse, but:

Quote
If Koel's redirections fails and she than takes her action of pushing coins at the gaurds does Cordal get to react to her action with his own steal/iron allomancy?

Yes. One reaction per action, without limit.

Just to be clear, I was under the impression that you can only React if you had a higher/equal Wits to a previously declared attack, and so Cordal cannot react to Koel's Steelpush without re-declaring his own attack, losing appropriate Action Dice and going last in the round. Is this incorrect?

I also think that, in order to clear a lot of this up, you can place "Reaction" in the Game Terms section with a description about how Ironpulling and Steelpushing applies to it.

[Skywalker]

Just to be clear, I was under the impression that you can only React if you had a higher/equal Wits to a previously declared attack, and so Cordal cannot react to Koel's Steelpush without re-declaring his own attack, losing appropriate Action Dice and going last in the round. Is this incorrect?

I think it's incorrect. You can react automatically if you have the ability to do so as it requires no action nor declaration. The rule you refer to concerns changing declared actions, not reactions.

What gave you that impression?

[ZetaStriker]

It just made sense to me that you can't react to something you don't see coming. If you aren't prepared to meet the action, it seems to me that you shouldn't be able to reactively counter it in that way. More importantly though, Koel's player specifically declared the action in the example during the declaration phase, rather than it coming up naturally when the attack finally came. And he didn't react to Koel's steelpush at the guards, as he should have been able to; after all, it doesn't have to target you for you to react to it, does it? Otherwise the Lurcher reaction wouldn't make sense, as you can't really prevent yourself from getting hit as a Lurcher.

[Crafty_Pat]

The PDF bookmarks for all the metal chapters have the type and push/pull in parenthesis except for Copper.

Sadly, the bookmarks will have to be redone from scratch, so this will be rectified as a matter of course.

[Skywalker]

It just made sense to me that you can't react to something you don't see coming. If you aren't prepared to meet the action, it seems to me that you shouldn't be able to reactively counter it in that way. More importantly though, Koel's player specifically declared the action in the example during the declaration phase, rather than it coming up naturally when the attack finally came. And he didn't react to Koel's steelpush at the guards, as he should have been able to; after all, it doesn't have to target you for you to react to it, does it? Otherwise the Lurcher reaction wouldn't make sense, as you can't really prevent yourself from getting hit as a Lurcher.

I think you are trying to add a layer of rules here that isn't  there. Having lower Wits effects your declared action as you set out but not reactions, which apply automatically, as far as I can tell. Reactions are meant to be simple in play. If you can do it, it applies and you roll the full pool rather than allocating dice.

In terms of the Lurcher, that's a good point. I assume most reactions of this kind would be used to defend against attacks against the person making it, but according to the text he could try and defend the Guards reactively too. I suspect this is just an oversight given the other issues with the example though, rather than an omitted rule as you propose.

Crafty, any chance of a clarification and an update to the example to deal with this.

[ZetaStriker]

You may be right - the Zinc/Brass reactions are listed as happening automatically. I'd also entirely forgotten Zinc and Brass had reactions in the same way Steel and Iron do, in fact.

[Nikomis]

p. 476-479

The descriptions for JeHoy's destiny end up with a picture showing the alteration to her Tragedy, and vice versa. (Destiny description adds the Destiny bonus to the Tragedy entry on paper, Tragedy description ends up with the Tragedy Turning Point on the Destiny picture)


p. 550

The example somehow goes from a 4,2,2 with two +1s going to 5,3,3. Someone added an extra +1 in there somewhere.

[Skywalker]

Actually on the point of Koel's Steelpush reaction, can she even redirect the attack made against her without the Reflect Ranged Attack stunt on page 311? It would seem to me that she would Steelpush react to defend but would then need a new source of metal to attack with.

[ZetaStriker]

I assumed that she just made the attack with her own coins rather than Cordal's, but it's probably a part of the same oversight that had her not use her Reaction.

[Skywalker]

I assumed that she just made the attack with her own coins rather than Cordal's, but it's probably a part of the same oversight that had her not use her Reaction.

That would work, but the example says she reflects his coins and then uses them to attack.

[Agent 333]

Rule of Cool. I think that's even mentioned at some point...