MAG Typos and Corrections thread

[Skywalker]

Cool. In that case, ignore my comments

[Skywalker]

Dealing with the examples, here's the changes I would make to the example in page 176:

Cordal's­ Steelpush ­is a ­Contest (being an attack using Steel). The attack must also overcome Koel's­ Steel result, due to her reaction.­ There's­ no ­Difficulty­ here­ — ­the ­coins­ are­ definitely ­going­ somewhere;­ all ­that's­ in­­ question­ is where they wind up.

Koel's­ attack ­is­ a­ Contest­ (being an attack using Steel). In this case, there is also a Difficulty as the coins are being shot blind through the wall. Brandon­ had­ originally­ planned­ to­ assign­ a­ Difficulty­ of­ 4­ but­ since­ Koel­ is­ burning Tin he reduces it to 3.

Page 201:

This­ is­ an attack using Steel. It also against­ Koel's­ Steel due to her reaction. Cordal will need to overcome both her Defence Dice result and her Steel result to hit.. There's­ no­ ­Difficulty ­here­...

Page 202:

Koel­ is ­reacting ­to­ Cordal's­ attack­ here, ­using­ a ­standard­ application­ of­ Steel­ use (see page 309).­ Cordal must beat Koel's Defence Dice as with a normal attack. His attack result must also overcome Koel's Steel result for her reaction. If Cordal's attack result does not exceed Koel's Steel result, she may also redirect those coins. It is important to note that the roll for the reaction is her formed from her full Steel Attribute and not from her Defence Dice. Nor is it her action hat beat requiring Action Dice.­

Page 204:

Brandon palms all 6 dice and waits for Becky to decide on defense dice before rolling. Becky is faced with a difficult decision here, as Koel's facing down a strong attack from a powerful Mistborn, but she's also committed to taking out that guard, who's clearly running to fetch reinforcements. She assumes correctly that the guard outside is taking two steps (meaning he won't be able to defend), and decides to chance it. She opts not to defend either, forfeiting the Contest, relying on her Steel reaction and hoping Brandon doesn't roll many Nudges. Since Koel isn't defending, Cordal's attack will hit her with any matching set provided he beats her Steel result from her reaction.  Brandon rolls the attack and Becky reactively rolls Koel's Steel. Cordal's attack hits with one Nudge. Brandon considers using Cordal's Nudge to reduce Koel's Action Dice, but decides against it because it wouldn't be sporting, and just as importantly, Cordal wouldn't realize what Koel has planned.

The only additional thing is that Koel is then described as redirecting the coins after being hit. This seems to contradict idea that her Steel failed to beat Cordal's Steel attack. But I guess if it's after she was hit, its sort of irrelevant and good colour narration. It may be good to add a line to that effect on page 205.

[Skywalker]

• Certain special abilities, like Steel and Iron, let you perform special reactions that are self-contained. In these special cases you form a fresh pool for each reaction and follow the rules for that reaction accordingly. There's no point is hoarding dice from these reactions, as they cannot be used for anything other than this one roll related to this one reaction.
• Unless a rule specifically lets you add dice or form a new pool, you're working with your one pool of dice and that's it - you don't get more dice or form more pools, ever. This what the sidebar on page 179 is all about.

I think there also needs to be a line that says that when using a reaction for defence, it opposes the same attack roll. The idea of forming a new reaction pool will suggest that you may also form a new dice pool and have a seperate Steel v Steel context for example.

I personally find the idea of reactions essentially forming Difficulties being the easiest to understand as this is how Difficulties operate in Contests. However, it is likely to be too much work to carry this idea through the existing text.

[Akerbos]

Yes, the finished book will contain an index.

Great!

We intentionally did not include one in the initial release just in case page numbers change. One of the reasons indexes are often wrong (or largely useless) is that they're insanely difficult to make, and changing them is even harder, so we want to make sure the book is absolutely final - at least for now - before we dive into the effort

'fraid that's not in the cards. [...] it would mean going back into layout for days, if not weeks, and that's just not possible.

Oh... I am so spoiled by using LaTeX that I don't even consider such changes causing work.
So you have to type every tiny reference and structure thing on your own? How awful! Maybe switch to "proper" tools for future publications? You might not get as nifty and beautiful a layout, but the job will be easier and less error-prone. You can always fine-tune layout afterwards.

Anything I didn't mention has been folded into the master docs.

If I've missed anything, please follow up as needed.

How can we tell if you don't mention what you dealt with?

Again, we want to thank all of your for your diligent efforts here. It'll make a huge difference in the final product.

Thanks for caring!

Ok, I thought I understood Catching the Beat, but I think I don't now. To reiterate: I explain my desired Action (whatever that be) and agree with the Narrator on the amount of dice I get, say n. This pile is split into a action and r reaction dice so that a + r = n. From those piles, pools of size k<=10 for individual rolls are formed.
First question: Do we have a, r <= 10? Or can I have either greater than 10 in order to split them across several (re)actions?
Second question: When I catch a beat, where do I get dice for the extra action from? You say I don't get new ones, but I have already rolled my action dice (where else would I have gotten the extra action from?)

[Skywalker]

You don't form a pool until you go to roll it. At which stage, if you have more than 10, you roll 10 and turn the rest into Nudges. So yes, it seems that if you had 30 Action Dice you could make an attack with a dice pool of 10 and spend two lots of Defence Dice pools at 10 too. I do note that such dice numbers are highly unlikely.

When you catch a beat, you can take a new, previously undeclared, action from any remaining Action Dice. It is worth noting that this will normally be from dice that you were leaving for Defence.

[Skywalker]

The many page "Let's Talk About Ferucehmists" thread has spurned another question. There is some ground to argue that in a Conflict, you simply can't form pools greater than 10 so as to get extra Nudges. This would remove the issue of Feruchemists spamming spamming charges for uber combat ability.

It seems tenuous to me. The opening paragraph in the Conflicts chapter has a page reference to the usually Game Basics chapter. But from then on (especially around Thorrow's dice pool) it talks about not forming pools greater than 10.

It may need some consideration, especially if the alternate intepretation is correct.

[Bill Whitmore]

This would remove the issue of Feruchemists spamming spamming charges for uber combat ability.

Not necessarily.  It says they can tap their metalminds with any action or roll.  They can wait until after they form the dice pool during a conflict to tap their metalminds and thus add dice over 10 still.

I am curious as to what the intent was here.  In a conflict round could a feruchemist declare his action and tap his metalmind to form his Action Dice pool and then tap his metalmind again when he actually made the roll later in the round?

[Skywalker]

I thought tapping was done on the roll, not declaration. That also distinguishes tapping Pewter from tapping Steel (which grants Action Dice to represent speed).

Good call on the Feruchemist, but it would remove the uber spam on one roll with many free Nudges which is my main concern.

[Crafty_Pat]

We intentionally did not include one in the initial release just in case page numbers change. One of the reasons indexes are often wrong (or largely useless) is that they're insanely difficult to make, and changing them is even harder, so we want to make sure the book is absolutely final - at least for now - before we dive into the effort.

'fraid that's not in the cards. [...] it would mean going back into layout for days, if not weeks, and that's just not possible.

Oh... I am so spoiled by using LaTeX that I don't even consider such changes causing work.

So you have to type every tiny reference and structure thing on your own? How awful! Maybe switch to "proper" tools for future publications? You might not get as nifty and beautiful a layout, but the job will be easier and less error-prone. You can always fine-tune layout afterwards.

Heh. Have you been playing tabletop RPGs for very long? Most regulars care nearly as much about looks as contents. We took a pretty big chance with this one, forgoing the purdy to line up with Brandon's novels, but most of our releases tend to be a lot more graphically involved.

We use our industry's standard, InDesign, for page layout, and while it has indexing features they're... not great. So yeah, if you want the work done right, it has to be done by hand.

Anything I didn't mention has been folded into the master docs.

If I've missed anything, please follow up as needed.

How can we tell if you don't mention what you dealt with?

Well, I'm afraid going through and listing everything point by point isn't in the card either - at least not if you want your printed books in any reasonable time frame, or the Fantasy Craft folks want me on Spellbound anytime soon. We do what we can...

Ok, I thought I understood Catching the Beat, but I think I don't now. To reiterate: I explain my desired Action (whatever that be) and agree with the Narrator on the amount of dice I get, say n. This pile is split into a action and r reaction dice so that a + r = n. From those piles, pools of size k<=10 for individual rolls are formed.

Stop there. You're already off.

We included a sidebar explaining all this. It's on page 179. Go read that and let me know if you have any questions on that first. Then we'll talk about catching a Beat.

[Crafty_Pat]

You don't form a pool until you go to roll it. At which stage, if you have more than 10, you roll 10 and turn the rest into Nudges. So yes, it seems that if you had 30 Action Dice you could make an attack with a dice pool of 10 and spend two lots of Defence Dice pools at 10 too. I do note that such dice numbers are highly unlikely.

That's correct outside Conflicts, but not inside Conflicts. Inside a Conflict you can't form a pool with more than 10 dice at all, so that Nudge conversion simply wouldn't happen - unless you're a Feruchemist or someone else who can buy or acquire Nudges in some fashion.

And yes, characters will very rarely if ever start with that many Action Dice, as you're gathering Action Dice with the same scores you use to form pools outside a Conflict.

When you catch a beat, you can take a new, previously undeclared, action from any remaining Action Dice. It is worth noting that this will normally be from dice that you were leaving for Defence.

Almost correct. When you catch a Beat you can take a new, previously undeclared action using any remaining dice. Those might be Action Dice or they might be Defense Dice.

You can't have Action and Defense Dice at the same time. Very important note. Again, go read that sidebar on page 179.

[Crafty_Pat]

The many page "Let's Talk About Ferucehmists" thread has spurned another question. There is some ground to argue that in a Conflict, you simply can't form pools greater than 10 so as to get extra Nudges.

Correct. This has in fact always been the case. See my previous above.

This would remove the issue of Feruchemists spamming spamming charges for uber combat ability.

Largely, though we do still need to clarify on the spending for Nudges front.

It seems tenuous to me. The opening paragraph in the Conflicts chapter has a page reference to the usually Game Basics chapter. But from then on (especially around Thorrow's dice pool) it talks about not forming pools greater than 10.

It may need some consideration, especially if the alternate intepretation is correct.

Well, that's how it works, and with that in mind we'd love to hear what you think - specifically - needs to be adjusted.

[Crafty_Pat]

I am curious as to what the intent was here.  In a conflict round could a feruchemist declare his action and tap his metalmind to form his Action Dice pool and then tap his metalmind again when he actually made the roll later in the round?

Of course not. Does it seem like that should be the case? Sometimes we write rules to cover multiple bases without using overly complex (read: unapproachable) language. This is one such case.

The idea behind the phrase "action or roll" is to cover potential situations where you take an action that doesn't require a roll, or an action that does require a roll, and combinations.

Is that seriously going to pose an issue? Do we have to codify specifically which rolls and values Feruchemists can affect, because then the rule breaks the second we introduce anything new.

[Bill Whitmore]

Is that seriously going to pose an issue?

At my table?  No, I'll make up my own answers.

I was just picturing a feruchemist tapping enough to gain 3 nudges on an attack to gain a beat, then taking another attack and tapping enough to get 3 edges again to gain a beat, etc.  This can be repeated until their metalmind stores or Action Dice are depleted.

However, thinking about it some more, if you must have at least 2 dice left over to take an action when catching a beat, it shouldn't be a problem, as each beat you would have to use at least 2 dice from your base pool.

[Crafty_Pat]

Is that the only issue you're seeing? We're already looking at the infinite Beat loop, and will incorporate that into any text revisions we make.

[Bill Whitmore]

Assuming a character has to spend at least 2 dice from his action dice pool, the maximum number of times he can take a beat is pool size / 2, rounded down.  If he wants to guarantee 3 nudges he would need to either spend 3 dice + 10 charges or 2 dice + 15 charges (per the other clarification concerning adding dice vs adding Nudges).  Because of the huge expenditure of charges plus the limitation on number of times he could catch a beat, I don't even think infinite beat loops are a problem from Feruchemy.

The only other problem I could see would be someone trying to spend charges when they form the action dice pools and then doing it again when they make the roll.  I wouldn't mind character's using either or both methods so long as the total spent does not add more than 10 dice for the beat.

If you are looking at beat length in conjunction with power durations, you may be able to just limit the charge tapping amount by beat.  Something like:

In each beat you may tap a total number of charges equal to 10 times your Feruchemical rating.  No more than 10 charges may be used to add dice to your pools, the rest may only be used to add Nudges (5 charges) or to increase your Outcome (10 charges).