MAG Typos and Corrections thread

[Skywalker]

That was my first reading too Akerbos. However, it would be a pain for PCs to split their actions down to 1d attacks. I would look to limit the number of actions somehow, such as the underlying base Attribute.

This makes me think that one action per beat is what was intended.

[Aminar]

They still take multiple actions.  Movement is another action.  Activating another metal is an action, etc.  Say I'm a mistborn.  My action for the turn is to use Iron to yank myself onto the roof of a nearby building a step away from me, fling some coins with steel, and activate pewter and tin.  I have used 4 metals, one move and one attack.  That's quite a few actions.

[Skywalker]

By actions, I mean actions requiring dice rolls, not including defence. Such as two attacks or one attack and pulling a metal object held by another. I agree that there is no confusion over the ability to take movement, burn metals etc as they are explicitly dealt with in the text.

[Crafty_Pat]

OK, I think I'm caught up with all comments in this thread. I'm gonna deal with the ranged combat issue in separate posts, but here are a bunch of random comments and questions of my own...

Any chance that we'll get an updated pdf made available with the errors fixed (perhaps the same as what gets sent to the printer)?  That would be cool.

Never fear! Everyone who purchases the Digital Edition at our site or DriveThruRPG (the only places it's available) will automatically receive updated files when we send everything to the printer.

page 553: The Keeper numbers are either off or should be charges.

Please elaborate. Are you saying they're somehow factually wrong, or recommending they're not what you think they should be?

Zetastriker raised this in another thread and I can't work out what the official stance on it is.

When you Catch a Beat in a Conflict, does the extra action use existing Action Dice or does it create new ones? If the later, how is this formulated? Do you declare a new action, form Action Dice and add them to existing pool? Are these dice kept seperate from existing Action Dice? Can they be used for Defence Dice?

These questions make me think that the former being simpler may be correct, but this makes Catching a Beat nothing more than an ability to take an undeclared action, which is cool but not that cool.

The later also creates an issue with extreme Pewter burning. If a Thug with Physique 6 and Pewter 7 would be getting 3 Nudges for certain for every physical action. This would allow them an infinite number of Actions through Catch a Beat. If the later was correct, you would need to limit Catch a Beat to once per beat to deal with this.

Any chance of clarification here?

Obviously you've all come to the correct conclusion that catching a Beat does not grant extra dice, but rather only allows you to take another action in the same Beat (drawing from the same dice, if you need to roll). We thought this was important enough to warrant being called out in the sidebar on page 142. So my question back to you is... Are there any places where we need to point to that sidebar, or reinforce the rule?

I note that it doesn't appear to ever explicitly say that you can only declare a single Action per beat. When I first read the Conflict section there were a number of phrases suggesting that you could declare multiple actions and then spread your Action Dice over them to succeed.

If this is not the case and one action only is allowed, a line to that effect would be helpful for clarity.

For catching a Beat to matter at all, yes, you can normally only declare one action (that requires a roll) per Beat. I'll see if I can state that somewhere in the Beats section (pages 135-137) and in the Declaring an Action section (page 172).

I think the amount of action one Action can contain depends on Beat length, character properties and Narrator style. For instance, a quick character burning Pewter with combat experience might easily hit a person two times and shove them in one combat action without having to spread dice (especially if they tell is nicely). A less advantaged character who wants to hit two persons in one Beat would have to split their pool into two Actions, on the other hand.

If that's how you'd like to run it, have at. It's not what we intended, however, which is why the change is necessary.

These were the references with grammar suggesting multiple actions are allowed. If one action is allowed shouldn't the bolded 's' be removed?

"At the start of each round, the Narrator and other players describe their characters' intended actions.

"Regardless of their Wits, characters who are surprised — perhaps due to a failed Contest before the start of the Conflict — always declare their actions before the characters getting the drop on them.

Note that in each of those cases we're speaking about multiple players or characters collectively, so those are actually correct as is.

"IMPORTANT: These dice are not yet a pool and you may have any number of them. They're called Action Dice and are used to form pools for various actions you take throughout the Conflict Round."[/i]

...and if we were to change this we'd suddenly get the question: "What happens if I catch a Beat? Do I not get to use those dice?"

On a related note, will the final print version contain an index/glossary? In my experience, a good index is invaluable in print books you expect to look up things in regularly.

Yes, the finished book will contain an index. We intentionally did not include one in the initial release just in case page numbers change. One of the reasons indexes are often wrong (or largely useless) is that they're insanely difficult to make, and changing them is even harder, so we want to make sure the book is absolutely final - at least for now - before we dive into the effort.

By the way, any thoughts on the chapter structure issue?

'fraid that's not in the cards. Even if we preferred the suggested structure (we don't - it runs completely counter to the presentation we've worked very hard to establish, both in terms of form and function), it would mean going back into layout for days, if not weeks, and that's just not possible.

Anything I didn't mention has been folded into the master docs.

I think that covers everything to date. If I've missed anything, please follow up as needed.

Again, we want to thank all of your for your diligent efforts here. It'll make a huge difference in the final product.

[Crafty_Pat]

Alright, I've read through the many conflicting posts on the attack/defense/reaction issue and rather than respond to anyone directly I want to boil it down and look at the bigger

It looks like Skywalker has it most right. Here's how it's supposed to work...

• Declared actions determine Action Dice, which are used to act.
• Dice left over after acting become Defense Dice.
• Defense dice are used to defend against all incoming attacks for the round. It's critical to understand that you do not gain additional dice when attacked or acted against, so if you go all in with an action you're out of luck when reacting - with only one exception...
• Certain special abilities, like Steel and Iron, let you perform special reactions that are self-contained. In these special cases you form a fresh pool for each reaction and follow the rules for that reaction accordingly. There's no point is hoarding dice from these reactions, as they cannot be used for anything other than this one roll related to this one reaction.
• Unless a rule specifically lets you add dice or form a new pool, you're working with your one pool of dice and that's it - you don't get more dice or form more pools, ever. This what the sidebar on page 179 is all about.

It's also important to note that this actually changes a little outside a Conflict. In a Contest or Challenge, you don't use pools, and so in those cases you get a fresh acting and/or defending pool for each action, as appropriate. This is, I think, where some of the confusion is coming from. For example, the Steel and Iron metal chapters speak about Steel or Iron "vs. Physique" rolls, which is correct until you get into a Conflict. Then those rolls are made against Defense Dice instead. I can clear this up in the final draft.

So, with all this in mind, what text/sections do you feel needs to be revised/updated? Please be as specific as possible, and include page and paragraph numbers.

As part of this, please point me to the specific discrepancy between the example running through the Conflicts and Physical Conflicts chapters. Those are supposed to be identical.

Thanks!

[Baijo Gosum]

• Certain special abilities, like Steel and Iron, let you perform special reactions that are self-contained. In these special cases you form a fresh pool for each reaction and follow the rules for that reaction accordingly. There's no point is hoarding dice from these reactions, as they cannot be used for anything other than this one roll related to this one reaction.

Thanks for jumping in!

Its the quote above that I am still not sure of, I apologize

when we perform the special reaction do any results from the over all conflict carry into that?

here is what I mean

Brandon (continuing with the first of the Bylerum Boys): “Cordal flings
several coins at Koel, clearly planning to Steelpush. That’ll be Steel targeting
Health...”

So Cordal makes a roll for the steel push.  That is his action.  Now we have the special reaction where Koel will try and push the coins away.  Does Cordal now roll his steel again against Koel's steel to see if she succeeds in her redirection, or does Cordal's result from his declared action carry over into the special reaction and only Keol rolls.  Or is the actually scenario different and I'm just not seeing it?

[Crafty_Pat]

So Cordal makes a roll for the steel push.  That is his action.  Now we have the special reaction where Koel will try and push the coins away.  Does Cordal now roll his steel again against Koel's steel to see if she succeeds in her redirection, or does Cordal's result from his declared action carry over into the special reaction and only Keol rolls.  Or is the actually scenario different and I'm just not seeing it?

In this case it works like this...

• Cordal and Koel each already have Action or Defense Dice, as normal.
• Cordal has declared an attack and rolls some of his Action Dice to do so.
• Koel may defend with Defense Dice, if she desires
• Koel may also defend with Steel, and if she does she gets to redirect the coins.
• If Koel defends with one or the other, Cordal's roll has to beat her one Result to hit her.
• If Koel defends with both, Cordal's roll has to beat both her Results to hit her.
• Koel only gets to redirect the coins if she's using Steel to defend and Cordal's attack misses (which also means her Steel reaction is a success).

That's in a Conflict. Outside a Conflict it works the same, except that without Action or Defense Dice Koel's defense pool would be determined by the circumstances and her choice of reaction (which might work out to Physique, with Steel to redirect as a reaction, or another combination, as appropriate).

[Baijo Gosum]

So Cordal makes a roll for the steel push.  That is his action.  Now we have the special reaction where Koel will try and push the coins away.  Does Cordal now roll his steel again against Koel's steel to see if she succeeds in her redirection, or does Cordal's result from his declared action carry over into the special reaction and only Keol rolls.  Or is the actually scenario different and I'm just not seeing it?

In this case it works like this...

• Cordal and Koel each already have Action or Defense Dice, as normal.
• Cordal has declared an attack and rolls some of his Action Dice to do so.
• Koel may defend with Defense Dice, if she desires
• Koel may also defend with Steel, and if she does she gets to redirect the coins.
• If Koel defends with one or the other, Cordal's roll has to beat her one Result to hit her.
• If Koel defends with both, Cordal's roll has to beat both her Results to hit her.
• Koel only gets to redirect the coins if she's using Steel to defend and Cordal's attack misses (which also means her Steel reaction is a success).

That's in a Conflict. Outside a Conflict it works the same, except that without Action or Defense Dice Koel's defense pool would be determined by the circumstances and her choice of reaction (which might work out to Physique, with Steel to redirect as a reaction, or another combination, as appropriate).

I understand, thanks you.

So if you can react with steel/iron there is not disadvantage for doing so.  The reaction dosn't take up any of your action dice.

If Koel's redirections fails and she than takes her action of pushing coins at the gaurds does Cordal get to react to her action with his own steal/iron allomancy?

[Crafty_Pat]

So if you can react with steel/iron there is not disadvantage for doing so.  The reaction dosn't take up any of your action dice.

That's correct. You've paid for the benefit, and you get it without further restriction.

If Koel's redirections fails and she than takes her action of pushing coins at the gaurds does Cordal get to react to her action with his own steal/iron allomancy?

Yes. One reaction per action, without limit.

[Baijo Gosum]

So if you can react with steel/iron there is not disadvantage for doing so.  The reaction dosn't take up any of your action dice.

That's correct. You've paid for the benefit, and you get it without further restriction.

If Koel's redirections fails and she than takes her action of pushing coins at the gaurds does Cordal get to react to her action with his own steal/iron allomancy?

Yes. One reaction per action, without limit.

I think I get it lol, thanks for all the help.

This makes coinshots are lurches very versatile in combat

[Crafty_Pat]

This makes coinshots are lurches very versatile in combat

As they are in the books.

[Soulcatcher]

page 553: The Keeper numbers are either off or should be charges.

Please elaborate. Are you saying they're somehow factually wrong, or recommending they're not what you think they should be?

Sorry for being overly concise.  NPC Keepers start with at a minimum rating of 20 in each metal (going by the Mistborn NPC rules, it doesn't appear to be a total rating).  However ratings only go up to 10.  So either there is an extra zero on each number, or they should start with 20 charges in each metalmind.  Either solution raises the question of what they other value is (i.e. if they start with a rating of 2, how many charges do they start with, or if they start with 20 charges, what's the rating?)

[Skywalker]

These were the references with grammar suggesting multiple actions are allowed. If one action is allowed shouldn't the bolded 's' be removed?

"At the start of each round, the Narrator and other players describe their characters' intended actions.

"Regardless of their Wits, characters who are surprised — perhaps due to a failed Contest before the start of the Conflict — always declare their actions before the characters getting the drop on them.

Note that in each of those cases we're speaking about multiple players or characters collectively, so those are actually correct as is.

Thanks for the clarification

In terms of the comment above, though there are many characters, so that word should be plural, the action singular for each of those characters so that word shouldn't. I am not a grammatical wizard, so I could be wrong, but I thought those lines should read:

"At the start of each round, the Narrator and other players describe their characters' intended action.

"Regardless of their Wits, characters who are surprised — perhaps due to a failed Contest before the start of the Conflict — always declare their action before the characters getting the drop on them."

[Crafty_Pat]

page 553: The Keeper numbers are either off or should be charges.

Please elaborate. Are you saying they're somehow factually wrong, or recommending they're not what you think they should be?

Sorry for being overly concise.  NPC Keepers start with at a minimum rating of 20 in each metal (going by the Mistborn NPC rules, it doesn't appear to be a total rating).  However ratings only go up to 10.  So either there is an extra zero on each number, or they should start with 20 charges in each metalmind.  Either solution raises the question of what they other value is (i.e. if they start with a rating of 2, how many charges do they start with, or if they start with 20 charges, what's the rating?)

Ah. I'll check in with Alex and see what he wants to do there. (He wrote the section.)

[Crafty_Pat]

In terms of the comment above, though there are many characters, so that word should be plural, the action singular for each of those characters so that word shouldnt. I am not a grammatical wizard, so i could be wrong, but I thought those lines should read:

"At the start of each round, the Narrator and other players describe their characters' intended action.

"Regardless of their Wits, characters who are surprised — perhaps due to a failed Contest before the start of the Conflict — always declare their action before the characters getting the drop on them."

Nope, because that phrasing indicates that the characters are collectively deciding on a single action together, rather than each deciding on a separate action.

Ain't English grand?