Alchemy Feats and bottled Combat Spells

[Bhurano]

Hi there,

a short time ago I ran into a problem when it comes down to the Alchemy Feats.

Alchemy Mastery & Supremacy allow you to pick up to 20 alchemy elixir recipes which emulate spells up to level 5. All nice and easy for that part.

But what happens if an alchemist starts throwing around fireball and lightning bolts vials. I suppose they act like the spell. So a fireball does his job and done. What does the lightning bolt. Does he pop into existence and goes along a path that you want?

Also, what happens if you decided to apply the gaseous upgrade to a fireball or lightning elixir?

For combat orientied elixirs I could also see the solution that you swallow the elixir down and get the one time ability to throw the spell around. The only problem might then the gaseous upgrade, because if all your buddys inhale your fireball elixir someone might end up in serious trouble. Another alternative that I could see is something like in Stardust, where they run around with the catched lightning. Just pull out the stopper out of the elixir and aim where you want it.

As always any help is appreciated.

[Krensky]

This really is a 'How does the GM want it to work thing'.

Personally, I'd make lightning bolt act like bottled lightning. Point the vial and pull the stopper (or make a cute little 'gun' that does the same thing).

As far as Elixir upgrades, if they don't make sense, don't allow them,

[TheTSKoala]

This really is a 'How does the GM want it to work thing'.

Personally, I'd make lightning bolt act like bottled lightning. Point the vial and pull the stopper (or make a cute little 'gun' that does the same thing).

As far as Elixir upgrades, if they don't make sense, don't allow them,

I think this is one of the awesome parts of FC and totally agree with Krensky.  This is interpretation time.  The rules give you the what and cost.  You make up your own how.  I mean.. if you want to crunchy it.. the spell point of origin is the bottle.. so.. just use that if there's a range question.

 I mean.. it's totally possible that 1 alchemist has it work like Krensky envisions.. while another... 3 words.. Fireball HAND GRENADES! 

[Krensky]

This really is a 'How does the GM want it to work thing'.

Personally, I'd make lightning bolt act like bottled lightning. Point the vial and pull the stopper (or make a cute little 'gun' that does the same thing).

As far as Elixir upgrades, if they don't make sense, don't allow them,

I think this is one of the awesome parts of FC and totally agree with Krensky.  This is interpretation time.  The rules give you the what and cost.  You make up your own how.  I mean.. if you want to crunchy it.. the spell point of origin is the bottle.. so.. just use that if there's a range question.

 I mean.. it's totally possible that 1 alchemist has it work like Krensky envisions.. while another... 3 words.. Fireball HAND GRENADES! 

Oh no, fireball is definitely a case of "Once you remove the safety strip, Mr Fireball Vial is no longer your friend."

Things like Lightning Bolt or ray spells I'm more inclined to say they're a case of point bottle, remove stopper.

Of course, my home brew also allows alchemists to use shot cartridges as the target of their preparations. One of the main reasons people chose to use the Heavy Revolver (which is chambered for - effectively - .45 Colt, .464 Casull, and .410 shot). I do reguire a upgrade to the firearm to fire anything other then the lowest grades of alchemical shells (which are simple damage type changers) though.

The image of the pacifist priest using a shotgun loaded with Sleep, Cure, and similar  shells is a lot of fun though.

[MilitiaJim]

The image of the pacifist priest using a shotgun loaded with Sleep, Cure, and similar  shells is a lot of fun though.

This sounds a bit like the Bounty Hunter healer with the healing dart, and the Commando Combat Medic's kolto bomb...

[SilvercatMoonpaw]

You could also use the Random Direction rules to determine which direction the lightening bolt takes when the container breaks open.  So it's good for dropping in a large crowd of enemies, maybe not such a good idea if you're withing range.......

[Krensky]

Or you can do all of the above for Maximum Happy Fun Time^TM.

[Bhurano]

Hehe, 

thanks for clearing up the fuss in my head. I like these ideas and will lobby for doing all of the above aka "Maximum Happy Fun Time (TM)".

Since I like wacko ideas I will try to get the the gaseous fireball unnoticed by our current GM. The picture of my half-orc rune wizard throwing in a crowd of viking pirates a potion of this stuff and all of them breathing in ancient power and instantly capable of lobbing fireballs to an enemy ship. An alternative would be to throw it into a bunch of enemys... and allowing them to bring doom upon themself. Because how would they know to control or use a spell handed out to them on short notice.

I think to keep our GM sane, I will have to drop that particular idea.

With regards to the lightning potions I have the idea to equip his Maul (think of the warhammer hammers of the sigmar priest or the space marines... best approximation I could find) with runic ornaments (mostly elemental themed) and some ball shaped holes - for inserting some alchemic wackiness. In a pinch lightning vials will do... and would hammer home the point that he is a master of weather magic. I would love to have a weapon with some kind of polymorph vials attached... I'll have to keep that in mind for a Trickster. Going from human to gold fish - just one hit away.

For addings some versatility, I will choose some alchemical recipes like sleep, fireball, brawn spells and so on. Also vials with shocking hand might come in handy for that guy.

Thanks for the help. I got a far better picture of the Alchemist.

[Kerebrus]

Since our last group had a budding alchemist making potions and elixirs, I should bring this up.

You throw a potion of Fireball (like the grenade).

but here is the catch (from memory, book at home): 10' throwing range with a x3 maximum increment = maximum 30' range.  Significantly less than the fireball stock range.

and with potential deviation, Fireball in a Can is potentially a bad day waiting to happen.

[paddyfool]

Still think I'll include it among the options for the "iconic" alchemist I was building, once I get back to that project.

[TheTSKoala]

but here is the catch (from memory, book at home): 10' throwing range with a x3 maximum increment = maximum 30' range.  Significantly less than the fireball stock range.

True, but you also get a utility trade off.  You could throw it into a window.  Hook it around a corner.  Hook it up to traps.  Think Home Alone.  You know the paint can that swung down and clocked the robber in the face? Replace that with jar o' Fireball!

[Krensky]

Also, slings are cheap.

Plus, I like my Fireballs dangerous. Heck,I remember when having it in your spellbook could get you ganked by your own party.

[MilitiaJim]

Also, slings are cheap.

Saint Barbara only knows where it goes on a Fumble...

[Sletchman]

Also, slings are cheap.

Saint Barbara only knows where it goes on a Fumble...

To me, the possibility of a spectacular failure is as much motivation to give something a shot as the possibility of it actually working.  Sometimes, I even make plans that are almost rube-goldbergian in their simplicity, just because they then have the potential to go tits-up in truly spectacular fashion.

[Gentry]

Also, slings are cheap.

Plus, I like my Fireballs dangerous. Heck,I remember when having it in your spellbook could get you ganked by your own party.

I loved that old volume calculation. You could kack a whole cave complex full of goblins in one go. I love the smell of napalm in the morning.