Skills

[ss2020]

Okay,

   I know in Spycraft there was a clear difference in notice and search but that difference seems gone in Fantasy Craft. They both seem able to spot everything equally well. The main difference is the ability mod used.
    There is nothing I can find that makes search better. In fact since it takes an action it is worse.
    The only thing I can think of is search gives you another check if you think you missed something with notice.
  I assume notice checks should be team checks when passing through an area? That seems to make sense and then the GM is not bogged down with lots of behind the screens rolling, thereby tipping his hand.
  Is there some distinction I have missed?

Scott

[Dreamstreamer]

I believe that the distinction is that Notice is passive and Search is active. In other words, Notice is GM initiated (and perhaps rolled), while Search is player initiated.

The GM tells you that you notice something. You tell the GM you are searching for something.

References: The description for Notice (pg. 78) and the description of Search (pg. 81)

Clear?

[ss2020]

I guess my question was not clear. Why not max out notice. You then never need search right?

S

[Crafty_Pat]

I guess my question was not clear. Why not max out notice. You then never need search right?

Not per the RAW.

If you play with the game as written, you'd need search each and every time you ask to, well, search for something, or search an area.

Notice comes into play when the GM asks you to roll to search for something, or to search an area - when you don't know to, or haven't asked to, do so.

[Dreamstreamer]

If you max out Notice, sneaky ninjas might have a harder time getting the drop on you, but without Search, you might have a more difficult time finding the key to unlock your manacles in the Warden's cluttered office before he gets back.

[ss2020]

If you max out Notice, sneaky ninjas might have a harder time getting the drop on you, but without Search, you might have a more difficult time finding the key to unlock your manacles in the Warden's cluttered office before he gets back.

My notice skill works to find the keys too. All I have to do is walk by them and I get a notice roll. Right?

[paddyfool]

If you max out Notice, sneaky ninjas might have a harder time getting the drop on you, but without Search, you might have a more difficult time finding the key to unlock your manacles in the Warden's cluttered office before he gets back.

My notice skill works to find the keys too. All I have to do is walk by them and I get a notice roll. Right?

Wrong.  Except possibly with a vastly higher DC... (noticing every little detail around you is much harder than looking for one particular thing).

[ss2020]

If you max out Notice, sneaky ninjas might have a harder time getting the drop on you, but without Search, you might have a more difficult time finding the key to unlock your manacles in the Warden's cluttered office before he gets back.

My notice skill works to find the keys too. All I have to do is walk by them and I get a notice roll. Right?

  Yes, I agree with you But, the rules don't. That is what I am trying to get at. I think there is or was a fundamental change in the way fantasy craft handles this. Or are they assuming we the experienced gamer just know this. 

Wrong.  Except possibly with a vastly higher DC... (noticing every little detail around you is much harder than looking for one particular thing).

[Antilles]

Also, I'd argue most uses of Notice is eyes only, so if those keys are underneath a magazine, Notice won't do much.

[Krensky]

If you max out Notice, sneaky ninjas might have a harder time getting the drop on you, but without Search, you might have a more difficult time finding the key to unlock your manacles in the Warden's cluttered office before he gets back.

My notice skill works to find the keys too. All I have to do is walk by them and I get a notice roll. Right?

Only if the GM decides you get a Notice roll.

[pawsplay]

If you max out Notice, sneaky ninjas might have a harder time getting the drop on you, but without Search, you might have a more difficult time finding the key to unlock your manacles in the Warden's cluttered office before he gets back.

My notice skill works to find the keys too. All I have to do is walk by them and I get a notice roll. Right?

If you're walking by your keys and don't know where they aer, you already failed your notice check.

[Coyote0273]

Search is active, Notice is passive. That's the entire difference. Basically, they work like this:

You're walking down a dark alleyway talking to your companion, and you hear footsteps behind you, or perhaps see a shadow off to the side. That's Notice. You're *not looking* for the sounds or visuals, you *just happen* to notice them.

Now, you get to the keep, and you're about to scale the wall, and you look around and along the walls to find out if there's guards around, or any traps and such. That's Search. You *are looking* for specific things.

To look at it another way, a D&D elf gets a notice check to locate secret doors, because it's innate, he just happens to notice these things. Now, a D&D elf thief can roll search to find any secret doors in a specific location.

Sneak and Blend work the same way.

[ludomastro]

For what it's worth, here's my two cents.

You are welcome to max out Notice to the exclusion of Search.  In fact, I had a player basically do that in a previous game.  While he couldn't be surprised due to his absurdly high Notice, he had trouble finding simple things that weren't in plain sight or that required more than cursory use of his senses.

To use the key example, he probably wouldn't have seen the key upon entering the office and walking around because I would have set the DC to Notice a hidden key at 30+, assuming I let him Notice it at all.  As soon as he started moving things around, that becomes a Search check.

Look for the secret door known to be in an office: Search.  Spot a scratch on the floor consistent with a section of wall opening outward: Notice.  Try to find the mechanism that opens said door: Search.  Notice need not apply.

But, that said, you are welcome to dissolve Search and replace it with Notice in your game.

[ss2020]

The skill rules do not say that.

[Krensky]

Reread the description of the Notice skill.