Half-Elf as a talent (or Species)

[Big_Jim]

As prompted over in the Half Elves thread in the Fantasy Craft section, here's the license to improvise threat for talents/species solutions. There are two ways to make Half-Elven as a talent - Bonus feat (Elf Blood) or Mixed Blood (Human/Elf). The best way, I think, is the bonus feat route. My efforts toward such are here:

HALF-ELVEN
You are the child of two peoples, human and elf. Furthermore, you are an exemplary example of the best of both.
•   Attributes: +1 Wisdom, –1 Constitution
•   Base Speed: 30 ft.
•   Elf Blood: You gain the Elf Blood Feat.
•   Keen Sight: Your visual range increments are equal to your Wisdom score x 50 ft. You also ignore range penalties from the 2nd and 4th range increments while you’re aiming.
•   Inquisitive Mind: You gain 2 additional interests.
•   Inscrutable: The error range of all Sense Motive checks targeting you increases by 2.

By including the Elf Blood feat in the talent, it frees up the 1st level feat to grab faerie heritage or a nation feat for a specific elf subtype without taking a two point attribute hit is you so desire. Also, with both the talent and blood feat's bonuses, you're looking at being truly 1/2 of the elf's attribute and speed bonuses/penalties. Inscrutable is there to show how your mixed heritage throws others off, while Inquisitive Mind represents what human adaptiveness and elven precision/focus can achieve with the perfect mix.

[ludomastro]

A nice compromise.

[pawsplay]

I think rather than Inscrutable, I might add an Origin skill to show their flexibility. They have the industry and adaptability of humans, but the curiosity and open-mindedness of elves.

[paddyfool]

I think this would work well.  It also allows level-one only feats for membership of particular half-elf groupings in a setting where those would exist (along the lines of the Nation/Clan/Horde feats which exist for other species), or for a half-elf from a particular Elven Nation (I think the Elf Blood feat would allow this... it ought to, even if it doesn't).

[SilvercatMoonpaw]

(I think the Elf Blood feat would allow this... it ought to, even if it doesn't).

It makes you count as an Elf, so yes.

[Coyote0273]

I think this would work well.  It also allows level-one only feats for membership of particular half-elf groupings in a setting where those would exist (along the lines of the Nation/Clan/Horde feats which exist for other species), or for a half-elf from a particular Elven Nation (I think the Elf Blood feat would allow this... it ought to, even if it doesn't).

I believe the blooded feats all allow you to take the -2 to an attribute to pick up an additional level 1 only feat.

[paddyfool]

I think this would work well.  It also allows level-one only feats for membership of particular half-elf groupings in a setting where those would exist (along the lines of the Nation/Clan/Horde feats which exist for other species), or for a half-elf from a particular Elven Nation (I think the Elf Blood feat would allow this... it ought to, even if it doesn't).

I believe the blooded feats all allow you to take the -2 to an attribute to pick up an additional level 1 only feat.

Yes, yes they do, so all of the above was already enabled and I'm a muppet.  Oh well.

[Coyote0273]

I think your talent does a better job of representing the D&D style half-elf than the blooded feat does.

[Big_Jim]

I think rather than Inscrutable, I might add an Origin skill to show their flexibility. They have the industry and adaptability of humans, but the curiosity and open-mindedness of elves.

I think that might give Half-Elves a little more than they deserve in benefit compensation. The basic elf has nothing that really mirrors such a benefit and very few talents go all the way as giving another origin skill. To simulate this type of "diverse knowledge/life experience base" I gave them Inquisitive Mind instead. I felt that those two interests were the best way to represent the variety of possible half-elf backgrounds from a number of fantasy sources through buying languages, alignment, and themed studies. Your mileage may vary, however.

I think your talent does a better job of representing the D&D style half-elf than the blooded feat does.

If that was directed towards me, thank you. I thought about doing something similar with half-orcs, since they are the other old-school mixed race that could use the treatment, but haven't followed through yet.

[pawsplay]

I think rather than Inscrutable, I might add an Origin skill to show their flexibility. They have the industry and adaptability of humans, but the curiosity and open-mindedness of elves.

I think that might give Half-Elves a little more than they deserve in benefit compensation. The basic elf has nothing that really mirrors such a benefit and very few talents go all the way as giving another origin skill. To simulate this type of "diverse knowledge/life experience base" I gave them Inquisitive Mind instead. I felt that those two interests were the best way to represent the variety of possible half-elf backgrounds from a number of fantasy sources through buying languages, alignment, and themed studies. Your mileage may vary, however.

I thought of it as giving a nod to their human heritage, since they obviously won't gain the benefits of a separate Talent, and further, is in line with their D&D heritage (wide multi-classing in AD&D, flexible multiclassing in D&D 3e, diletannte in 4e).

[Goodlun]

I like it, it would be nice to see more talents that contained species feats in them.
The only problem is though don't they end up with one feat too many?
1st level feat
Specialty feat
interesting it certainly fits thematically as a talent over a Specialty.
would it be better served having
"Elf Blood" required instead of given?  For balance reasons.
I have been toying with the idea of a campaign quality that gives everyone on free species feat since they are pretty dang neat.

[spinningdice]

It's not the only talent/species that grants a bonus feat, though it's not a common option.

[Coyote0273]

There are 3 human talents in the core book alone that grant feats, so while not common as spinningdice said, it isn't something that goes against any rule.

[Goodlun]

There are 3 human talents in the core book alone that grant feats, so while not common as spinningdice said, it isn't something that goes against any rule.

I stand corrected

[Big_Jim]

I like it, it would be nice to see more talents that contained species feats in them.
The only problem is though don't they end up with one feat too many?

You pay for that extra feat by having fewer other goodies built into the talent. So it all works out in the end.

I think rather than Inscrutable, I might add an Origin skill to show their flexibility. They have the industry and adaptability of humans, but the curiosity and open-mindedness of elves.

I thought of it as giving a nod to their human heritage, since they obviously won't gain the benefits of a separate Talent, and further, is in line with their D&D heritage (wide multi-classing in AD&D, flexible multiclassing in D&D 3e, diletannte in 4e).

Well, we see it slightly differently. I see talents as being what that human character is focused on from among the diversity available to the player. The vast majority are genetic/physical in nature, so I designed this Talent to focused on human diversity via the character's innate elfy-ness (as opposed to other humans' lack of it.).

Then there is the problem that Origin Skill is a one point benefit and Inscrutable is a 0.5 point benefit. None of the disadvantages felt like they fit half-elves, since I've always feel that their disadvantages are role-play based, such as isolated bigotry (not common enough to justify Reviled or such). Elf Blood, Keen Sight, and Inquisitive Mind were all 'must haves' in my mind and Inscrutable mirrors both others' fascination with stereotypical half-elven beauty and the uncertainty with 'how was this person raised?'. That leaves no real room for Origin Skill to be added to the mix.

How would you (re)build this talent to satisfy your view of a half-elf? That's why I made this thread, after all to promote throwing some ideas on the subject around.