New player.. new to RPGs.. new to FC.. Impressions & a few chuckles! +Build "?"

[TheTSKoala]

So.. we have a new player.  Friend's significant other.  Has always had an interest but never got to play.  (Either the group didn't have the patience for a new player, too full, etc.)  We gladly welcome a new face to the table and introduce her to the basics of D20, then set her loose with the FC & AC. 

First.. she absolutely fell in love with the character options.  To the point where it was said.. "I can be a Tree?!  Or a Lizard?!!  Oooh!  A Golem!  Why would anyone pick human..." I personally LOL'd.  (Her fiance is a human char.)

Panache and Prudence she got right away.  Apparently, if you're not used to D&D and the others.. the concept is really easy to get.  "So, low Prudence means you just handed your girlfriend your credit card.  Got it!"  LOL.

So.. all in all.. she was very eager to play and enjoyed the system of skills and options presented to her.  Now, for those who have created more characters than me.. she has a very cool concept.. but we're trying to figure out the "best" way to present it.

Aquatic-species slave who broke free and is out for vendetta against any land dweller that crosses her.

She's eyeing Martial Artist into Assassin.  (or Vice Versa) and if they survive long enough.. a Mist Dancer.  Definitely a Seductress turned murdering psychopath type.  Even if she doesn't have a weapon, she's lethal / beautiful as a succubus.  Stare at her hips while she puts a shiv through the base of the skull / snaps your neck sorta concept.  I'm not sure she needs the Martial Artist class except for maybe the unarmed feat acceleration and improved BAB.  Or eliminate Assassin and take scout for Sneak Attack.  (She mentioned Assassin out of idea.. and not so specifically the class.  So, we're trying to go over it a bit to try to explain the best route and why...)

Side note:  First time players.  Anyone else get that sort of reluctant panic that "Hey.. I better not screw up or she may end up hating this hobby??" feeling? LOL

[Agent 333]

I'd totally got Martial Artist, make Charisma your key MA stat... Martial Artists can take Melee Combat feats as bonus feats, drop down the Knife line, carry a stiletto, and watch guards and the like drop like flies.
As for Aquatic species, I'm a fan of Dolphin Nation elves, especially in the seductress role... Dolphin Noble gives her access to Beguiling and an Appearance boost on top of that.

If you're starting at too low a level to get all this fun stuff (which can be done by level 5 if she takes the Sorcerer specialty, level 6 otherwise), remind her that her character will get to the awesome parts eventually, but when she's just starting out she has to learn how to be badass. Keep in mind that while we think of Level 1 characters as awesome, that's only in comparison to D&D. People who've never roleplayed before might not see them that way.

[TheTSKoala]

Well.. so far..she seems the grasp to.. "Building speed" towards "Awesomesauce!".  Her fiance loves that phrase.  ...I toss cold pizza at him from time to time for it.. back to point.

Thanks for that build insight! I totally spaced out on the "Charisma as butt-kicking stat" concept. 

[Coyote0273]

If Mist Dancer is involved in this, then Mage (or any of the specialty arcane classes) needs to be involved in there somewhere. No other way you can get the Spellcasting and spells required to get into the class.

Dropping that, whether Assassin or Martial Artist really depends on the concept. Is she wanting to be that badass warrior who just also happens to be hot and likes stabbing people in the back? Or is she less combat awesome but more the sneaky type than the one who can stand up in a straight fight. First one, I'd go martial artist, second I'd go Assassin.

Also, remember, you don't need to have a class to get Sneak Attack. You can pick it up with feats. Wolfpack Supremacy and Ambush Supremacy would give you an additional 4 sneak attack dice, though it is expensive (6 feats).

As for the "new player panic", in my case (and with my group), it's more of a worry that they're not feeling too included. New players don't tend to understand all the options, or just what they might do rather than roll the dice and tend to feel excluded. Or they're afraid to speak up and look stupid, even if they have a good idea. You really have to engage them and make sure they're enjoying it and feeling part of the group and ready to contribute.

[TheTSKoala]

If Mist Dancer is involved in this, then Mage (or any of the specialty arcane classes) needs to be involved in there somewhere. No other way you can get the Spellcasting and spells required to get into the class.

You, sir, get a GC cookie.  I completely glazed over that fact until it was going to be far too late.  And.. she wants to be "I'm just a hot chick.. no real threat".. and then start whoopin' while they focus on the rest of the group.

[Coyote0273]

If Mist Dancer is involved in this, then Mage (or any of the specialty arcane classes) needs to be involved in there somewhere. No other way you can get the Spellcasting and spells required to get into the class.

You, sir, get a GC cookie.  I completely glazed over that fact until it was going to be far too late.  And.. she wants to be "I'm just a hot chick.. no real threat".. and then start whoopin' while they focus on the rest of the group.

Think more along the lines of just how combat oriented /mechanics/ wise she wants to be. If Michelle Yeow and Arnold from the Conan era were standing side by side, I'd be all afraid of Arnold and ignore Michelle. Even if she could've kicked Arnold's ass. That would definitely go in the realm of Martial Artist if she's thinking that one.

Less combat focused stat-wise would be Assassin. The assassin can do its share of damage, and has lots of nifty tricks, but it doesn't get the sheer number of feats to do a stand up fight. But is much more sneaky, and more than likely able to get into flanking positions and such than either a MA or Soldier can.

[paddyfool]

If Mist Dancer is involved in this, then Mage (or any of the specialty arcane classes) needs to be involved in there somewhere. No other way you can get the Spellcasting and spells required to get into the class.

Well, technically you can get there through Sage 4, but I don't think it would fit this concept anyway.

Martial Artist 3 / Mage 1/ Mist Dancer (putting off the spellcasting, and all the additional choices and confusion that it entails, until as late as possible) should still work.  You could fluff the Mage's spellcasting as coming from tapping into some hidden talent quite nicely, especially with the Sorcerer Speciality.

Of course, another option which would seem to me to fit this concept well would be Edgemaster.  Vanguard Martial Artist/Edgemaster would be a very straightforward way to do this, would fit Cha-focused martial arts perfectly, and might well be easier to play in a first game.  (And although you obviously wouldn't get much mileage from the Stand Together ability, it does fit the character concept EDIT: although you might also want to consider Ranger, Rogue, and Swindler, just for starters).

[Mister Andersen]

Alternatively, go wth the 1st first printing version of Path of Magic and let her pick up Blessed as her 3rd level

OR

Allow her to pick up a Prize -- in this case, one with the Class Ability (Subtle and Quick to Anger) essence -- either as a purchase or^* as a reward for a quest. If you're particularly kind, it might also include the Greater Skill Ranks charm (which if she picks up the prize at level 4 will give her 3 of the 4 ranks required for the class).

That's 20 rep for just the ability, or 32 rep for the whole package. Which, as it happens, is essentially the value of a level of Renown that you can hand out to the other party members as Prizes around the same time. Assuming of course they have the slots free to keep them: offering her the choice of relinquishing a previously gained prize in order to gain entry to the ExC (without having to take a level of Mage) could becoe an interesting plot point...


*: Unless you're handing out Rep like candy or she's got one of a very few specific and generally unsuitable Specialties, she'd be unable to afford to purchase even the class ability version, having to spend some 60 rep to buy the 2 reown that would allow her to purchase it

[Goodlun]

If Mist Dancer is involved in this, then Mage (or any of the specialty arcane classes) needs to be involved in there somewhere. No other way you can get the Spellcasting and spells required to get into the class.

Blessed with a step along Path of Magic is another way to handle this, this is in fact how we did it for out MA turned Mist dancer.  Of course its up the the GM to allow the combo.
Opps looks like I should have read everyone's responses as someone has already suggested this.

[Mister Andersen]

If Mist Dancer is involved in this, then Mage (or any of the specialty arcane classes) needs to be involved in there somewhere. No other way you can get the Spellcasting and spells required to get into the class.

Blessed with a step along Path of Magic is another way to handle this, this is in fact how we did it for out MA turned Mist dancer.  Of course its up the the GM to allow the combo.

That course of action is only valid if you're using the 1st printing version of the path; the 2nd printing version is substantially different, becoming an adjunct to magery rather than a serviceable replacement.

[Goodlun]

If Mist Dancer is involved in this, then Mage (or any of the specialty arcane classes) needs to be involved in there somewhere. No other way you can get the Spellcasting and spells required to get into the class.

Blessed with a step along Path of Magic is another way to handle this, this is in fact how we did it for out MA turned Mist dancer.  Of course its up the the GM to allow the combo.

That course of action is only valid if you're using the 1st printing version of the path; the 2nd printing version is substantially different, becoming an adjunct to magery rather than a serviceable replacement.

wow I totally missed that in the Errata.  I can see the reason for the change but I have to admit I like the 1st edition better.  Since path availability is controlled by the GM I like having the option for situations like this one.

[Mister Andersen]

The problem was that it was felt that amending the Path to include the spell points required to make it work -- I seem to recall it was 3 / step  -- made it comparatively more powerful than other paths. The solution it seems to me would be to require the person taking the Path to pick up the Spell Power feat as a prerequisite to the 2nd step.

[Soulcatcher]

Allow her to pick up a Prize -- in this case, one with the Class Ability (Subtle and Quick to Anger) essence -- either as a purchase or^* as a reward for a quest. If you're particularly kind, it might also include the Greater Skill Ranks charm (which if she picks up the prize at level 4 will give her 3 of the 4 ranks required for the class).

That's 20 rep for just the ability, or 32 rep for the whole package. Which, as it happens, is essentially the value of a level of Renown that you can hand out to the other party members as Prizes around the same time. Assuming of course they have the slots free to keep them: offering her the choice of relinquishing a previously gained prize in order to gain entry to the ExC (without having to take a level of Mage) could becoe an interesting plot point...


*: Unless you're handing out Rep like candy or she's got one of a very few specific and generally unsuitable Specialties, she'd be unable to afford to purchase even the class ability version, having to spend some 60 rep to buy the 2 reown that would allow her to purchase it

I almost certain (subject of course to the caveat of house rules) that you can't do that.  The rules are clear that temporary feats (which is what magic items grant) cannot be used for expert class prerequisites.  It seems like temporary class features should work the same way.

[Goodlun]

I wonder if spell bound will give us some new options to picking up Subtle & Quick to anger with out having to sacrifice a class level for it?

[Mister Andersen]

Prizes are permanent upgrades until you lose them (and if you want just flat out declare it an artifact and remove all doubt): taking the Prize route also means that should you lose that prize then everything built on it (ie, class abilities) becomes unavailable, necessitating an adventure to reclaim it...)