New Skill Uses

[Bill Whitmore]

Perhaps they could be restructured as focuses costing a trick.  It would also have the advantage of allowing people, for example, to be a great sailor without having to be just as good at other uses of Ride.

This is what I was thinking.

If I was playing in a Game of Thrones...game, then I could make a Dothraki who maxes out Ride who take tricks instead of other Ride focuses.  He would rock on horseback but even at level 20 he'd be lost trying to Ride any non-land-based mount or vehicle.

[Sletchman]

I can see both sides of the argument, but as you say... a) it costs you a trick which can be a precious resource, and b) sprawled is already a pretty nasty penalty. Additionally, assuming the character does just reposition, they are still out half an action, which I think is a fair cost.

Just to play devil's advocate here - they're not really out a half action.  If they fail, they become sprawled (which is likely the condition they were trying to remove), no action spent.  So they do what they would have originally done and spend the half action to get up.  It's essentially a proficiency for a specific free action that has the potential to fail.

That said, I'm not against it at all (and have allowed players to get up as a free action using a DC20 Acrobatics check since Spycraft 2.0).

[Khaalis]

So if I'm getting this straight, we're talking about something like this...


NEW USES FOR SKILLS

RIDE
.     Special: A character may choose a Cavalry or Crew trick in place of additional Focuses after Level 1.


NEW ADVANCED ACTIONS

CAVALRY TRICKS
Cavalry Trick Requirement: Ride Focus with any "Mount"

Example:

CLEAN DISMOUNT
(Source: http://www.crafty-games.com/forum/index.php?topic=5230.0)
   Trip Trick (Cavalry Trick): The character is skilled in plucking riders from their saddles as neatly as if picking food from his plate.  When attempting a trip action against a mounted character, the target's size is treated as that of the rider, rather than the mount; however, on a success, only the rider, and not the mount, will be sprawled.

[Bill Whitmore]

Yea, that looks like what I basically had in mind.

So if I had 12 ranks in Ride, I would pick one focus as normal with my first rank.  Then at 4, 8 and 12 I could take a Ride trick in lieu of a new focus.

Alongside that, 4 ranks in other skills would allow you to pick a new trick for that skill.  So, for example, with 4 ranks in Acrobatics, you could pick up a new trick such as the previously discussed Kip Up.

[Khaalis]

Alongside that, 4 ranks in other skills would allow you to pick a new trick for that skill.  So, for example, with 4 ranks in Acrobatics, you could pick up a new trick such as the previously discussed Kip Up.

I'm not certain anyone could come up with enough skill tricks to do this for every skill, especially skills that really only have 1 sub-roll to begin with. If anything it would start to become forced and even too bland at some point as many would probably end up being very similar. I'm also not certain the idea works for all skills or that it would be balanced to get a trick for every skill at 4,8,12,16 & 20. For actual skill classes this would be an insane number of tricks.

I like the idea for the skills that gain focuses specifically because it fits mechanically and flavor-wise to not be forced into being an expert at every focus just to be an expert in your primary focus. For instance  horse nomad with 16 ranks in Ride shouldn't also be forced to be just as good at 4 other focuses. However, they should get something in exchange for not taking those foci, thus the bonus skill tricks.

Thoughts?

[Bill Whitmore]

I'm not certain anyone could come up with enough skill tricks to do this for every skill, especially skills that really only have 1 sub-roll to begin with.

I know it is a lot of tricks and I don't plan on taking the time design them, it was more of a thought experiment.

If anything it would start to become forced and even too bland at some point as many would probably end up being very similar. I'm also not certain the idea works for all skills or that it would be balanced to get a trick for every skill at 4,8,12,16 & 20.  For actual skill classes this would be an insane number of tricks.

Well, the idea was to offer new skill uses when you invested enough resource into a skill.  The original post was basically giving free tricks just for investing 1 rank in the skill.  If anything, this would ultimately be more balanced than just giving away new tricks as they come up to anyone who happens to have at least 1 rank in it.

If I was to do this for my game, I'd probably leave it to my players to come up with the idea for the trick and I would just work out the mechanics for it rather than try to come up with 100+ tricks up front.

I like the idea for the skills that gain focuses specifically because it fits mechanically and flavor-wise to not be forced into being an expert at every focus just to be an expert in your primary focus. For instance  horse nomad with 16 ranks in Ride shouldn't also be forced to be just as good at 4 other focuses. However, they should get something in exchange for not taking those foci, thus the bonus skill tricks.

Thoughts?

In my experience, a character having additional focuses in Ride and Craft rarely matters in the context of the adventure.  Character's don't normally need more than one focus.  It's rare that someone needs to ride a horse out to the wharf, take a boat across the sea, hop in their wagon to drive out to a mountain aerie so they can get a griffon to fly home.  Allowing someone to drop a resource that is only marginally useful at best (additional focuses) and replace it with something that will be used all the time (tricks for their main focus) just seems like too much is being given out without any real cost.

The only time I would be inclined to allow something like that was if I made something similarly available to any skill, not just Craft and Ride.

[Khaalis]

BASIC COMBAT FEATS

TRICK RIDER
   You were born in the saddle.
   Prerequisites: Ride 1+ ranks
   Benefit: You gain 3 different Ride tricks (those with the “Ride 1+ ranks” requirement).


SKILL FEATS

ESCAPE ARTIST
   You are a trained escapologist.
   Prerequisites: Acrobatics 1+ ranks
   Benefit: You gain a +6 insight bonus to all Escape checks. Additionally, by increasing the DC of your Escape attempt by 10 you can shrug off your bonds with greater alacrity, escaping bindings or restraints (except a grappler) as a full-round action (rather than  a full minute).


SPELLCASTING FEAT

SPELL CONVERSION: WILD
   You have an innate talent for wild magic.
   Prerequisites: Wild Magic Campaign Quality, Casting Level 1+
   Benefit:  You gain 2 tricks.
Intentional Wild Surge: When casting a spell you may pay 3 additional spell point to increase the spells' Wild Magic Quality's threat and error penalty by 2.
Suppress Wild Surge: When casting a spell you may double the casting time to remove the spells' Wild Magic Quality's threat and error penalty.

   Related Campaign Quality
   •   Wild Magic (2 AD): The threat and error ranges of Spellcasting checks increase by 2 and when a character scores
   critical success or failure, roll 1d6 and consult Table 7.4: Wild Magic (FC p.326).


Thoughts?

[Eärendle]

Would it break anything to allow PCs a free Study related to the skill in lieu of taking a new focus? I'm not sure if I saw this suggested elsewhere.

[Khaalis]

Would it break anything to allow PCs a free Study related to the skill in lieu of taking a new focus? I'm not sure if I saw this suggested elsewhere.

This is already covered on p67 ... Knowledge checks of a related subject already count as a related Study for that skill.

[Sletchman]

Would it break anything to allow PCs a free Study related to the skill in lieu of taking a new focus? I'm not sure if I saw this suggested elsewhere.

This is already covered on p67 ... Knowledge checks of a related subject already count as a related Study for that skill.

I don't think that's what he means.  I think he means you gain a 4th rank in Ride and instead of adding Water Vehicles to your Land Mounts focus, you instead take a study of Horse Breeding.  And no, I can't see it causing any harm (I'd even almost go the other way too - let characters drop study's to take further new foci).  To me, it seems like the two resources are fairly balanced between each other so spending one to gain another shouldn't be too bad (could be wrong, as always).

[Khaalis]

I don't think that's what he means.  I think he means you gain a 4th rank in Ride and instead of adding Water Vehicles to your Land Mounts focus, you instead take a study of Horse Breeding.  And no, I can't see it causing any harm (I'd even almost go the other way too - let characters drop study's to take further new foci).  To me, it seems like the two resources are fairly balanced between each other so spending one to gain another shouldn't be too bad (could be wrong, as always).

But isn't that what is already covered on p67?  For every skill you already have the related Study. If you want to know something about horse breeding and it really matters to the point where you need a die roll, its a Ride Knowledge check and you are already considered to have the Study for that skill. At least that is how I interpret what it says.  Am I reading it wrong?

[Sletchman]

But isn't that what is already covered on p67?  For every skill you already have the related Study. If you want to know something about horse breeding and it really matters to the point where you need a die roll, its a Ride Knowledge check and you are already considered to have the Study for that skill. At least that is how I interpret what it says.  Am I reading it wrong?

You're certainly correct in your reading of the rules.  This would be in addition to that rule - so you'd get your synergy in addition to the extra Study you exchanged your "spare" focuses for - so instead of having a +5 for that Knowledge check, you might have a +8 (and get 3 potential additional hints).  So it's the difference between someone with experience (just ranks in the skill) and someone who is an expert, and has dedicated time to one specific field (Single skill focus, more studies regarding that focus, higher knowledge check overall).

Those numbers are totally ass-pulled, but I hope it demonstrated my case.  That's assuming I understood Eärendle correctly in the first place.

[Khaalis]

Ok, now that makes perfect sense when explained that way. As for the numbers, typical Synergy is +2, so I'd allow someone to give up a focus for an additional synergy bonus of +2 for each focus "spent" that way.