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Author Topic: [A New Pie] Challenge: New Basic Skill Mastery pairings  (Read 2485 times)
Morgenstern
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« on: November 07, 2011, 04:00:35 PM »

   I always find it interesting reading the design blogs for Magic: the Gathering when they get into shifts and eddies in how the color pie can be used to divvy up effects. These kinds of total organizational systems always fire my design imagination. So when faces with a number of other computer RPGs that have 6-7 stats (fallout, SWTOR) that are obviously derived from Dungeons and Dragon's big 6 but with changes to make the stat names line up with what they actually do in that game, it got me to thinking about my own take on a new array of attributes and the "skill check pie" of effects.

   I've come up with 6 new attributes, mixing and blending the big six while eliminating some of the names that have just never worked for me. I think this spread can be used to define heroic characters in interesting ways. I then did a little juggling to get the Mastercraft skill system down to only 18 skills and divided them up evenly amongst the 6 attributes. The neat thing is each attribute has a "key skill" thats sort of the defining skill for what the attribute does.

   The challenge I wish to propose is:

   Given the following list of 18 skills, create a list of 9 named pairs with no duplication or skills left out.

   The six attributes and their associated skills are~

   Awareness (Awr): Attention to your surroundings. Your Awareness modifier is added to initiative rolls, ranged defense, and Injury saves. The key skill for Awareness is Vigilance and its also tied to Investigate and Sense Motive checks.
   Determination (Dtr): The drive to reach your goals. Your Determination modifier is added to morale per level, social defense, and Fear saves. The key skill for Determination is Focus and its also tied to Intimidate and Survival checks.
   Fitness (Fit): Physical integrity and power. Your Fitness modifier is added to melee/unarmed attack checks and Affliction Saves. Fitness score sets Health. The key skill for Fitness is Athletics and its also tied to Acrobatics and Stealth checks.
   Grace (Grc): Your agility and attractiveness. Grace modifier is added to lifestyle, melee/unarmed Defense, and spell (FX) save DCs. It benefits the Blend, Disguise, and Impress.
   Guile (Gul): Cunning and creativity. Your Guile modifier is added to social attack checks and skill points per level. Guile score sets Spells (FX) known. The key skill for Guile is Deception and its also tied to Parley and Tactics checks.
   Precision (Prc): Accuracy and attention to detail. Your Precision modifier is added to starting proficiencies, ranged attack checks, and spellcasting (FX) checks. The key skill for Precision is Expertise and its also tied to Sabotage and Transport checks.

   Give it a try! I'm very curious to see if the new names are evocative without additional clarification of their function (which I'll go over later if there is too much confusion).
« Last Edit: October 20, 2012, 01:01:08 AM by Morgenstern » Logged

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Krensky
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« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2011, 04:06:08 PM »

Point of order, Fallout's SPECIAL is based on GURPS, not D&D?
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Morgenstern
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« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2011, 04:12:06 PM »

Point of order, Fallout's SPECIAL is based on GURPS, not D&D?

Reality check, its the big 6 plus luck. Smiley

(made abundantly clear by Luck not having any skills - it's six + a tail)
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« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2011, 04:21:41 PM »

Fallout was originally going to be GURPS, but licensing problems made SJG and Interplay mutually agree to end their partnership. SPECIAL was redesigned from the ground up, but has elements of GURPS in there.

Or so I've been told... Wink

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Morgenstern
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« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2011, 04:28:28 PM »

Then I can only assume the GURPS apple did not roll out from under the D&D branches after it fell Smiley.

■Strength = Strength
■Perception = Wisdom
■Endurance = Constitution
■Charisma = Charisma
■Intelligence = Intelligence
■Agility = Dexterity
■Luck = a vestigial tail  Wink

Not saying my spread is significantly different Smiley. I'll post the "blur table" in a bit.
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« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2011, 04:38:59 PM »

GURPS uses STRength, DEXterity, INTelligence, and HealTH, with advantage based charisma and luck mechanics. INT covers the vast majority of things SPECIAL puts under Perception and Charisma, with advantages and disadvantages applying to specific uses and skills.

It also is based on Evil Stevie's earlier RPG the Fantasy Trip, which are based on his even earlier micro skirmish games Melee and Wizard (if memory serves on the last).

This is going a bit afield now, so I'll stop. Wink
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Morgenstern
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« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2011, 05:00:55 PM »

This is going a bit afield now, so I'll stop. Wink

Actually, I find it interesting, but I'll act all gruff and upset and claim "I'll only forgive you if you take up the challenge." That sound good to you?  Grin
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« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2011, 05:58:35 PM »

For some ridiculous reason, I decided to try and do this ironman.  Random assignation of skills to pairings gave the following:

Focus + Bluff = Manipulator
Sneak + Tactics = Commando
Misdirection + Survival = Thieving hermit
Bargain + Stunts = Street Acrobat
Riding + Sense Motive = Horse whisperer?
Investigate + Athletics = Manhunter
Disguise + Appeal = Actor
Awareness + Intimidation = Bodyguard
Blend + Expertise = Shy maestro

Some of those pairings were much less natural than others...

EDIT: If I cheat, and chop and change the four worst pairings to suit me, I get these:

Misdirection + Stunts = Entertainer
Riding + Survival = Nomad
Bargain + Expertise = Businessman
Sense Motive + Blend = Imposter
Plus the five which can stay (Manipulator, Commando, Manhunter, Actor, and Bodyguard)

« Last Edit: November 07, 2011, 06:12:03 PM by paddyfool » Logged
Krensky
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« Reply #8 on: November 07, 2011, 06:05:19 PM »

No gaurentee on names. Wink

As to the off topic, as you can probably guess, the value of attributes is the second most lopsided I'm familiar with since something like 90% (made up, but it feels right... been a few years) of all skills fall under DEX or INT.

First place goes to Interlock where virtually all combat skills are Dex based, especially in Mekton where other then a few specialized systems, like electronic warfare or specialized sensor packages, all Mecha combat is dex based. Which is why I prefer the Fuzionized system in Bubblegum Crisis when I pull out what I still consider to be the best Mecha RPG in existance.
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« Reply #9 on: November 07, 2011, 06:05:53 PM »

On the basis that the 6 key skills couldn't be paired with each other.

Aggressor: (Athletics & Intimidation)
Social Predator: (Appeal & Blend)
Infiltrator: (Expertise & Sneak)
Dogged: (Focus & Investigate)
Liar: (Bargain & Bluff)
Reader: (Awareness & Sense Motive)
Daredevil: (Stunts & RidingHandle)
Magician: (Misdirection & Disguise)
Hunter: (Tactics & Survival)


« Last Edit: December 09, 2011, 12:11:29 AM by Mister Andersen » Logged

paddyfool
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« Reply #10 on: November 07, 2011, 07:13:57 PM »

Good stuff, Mr A. 

Just in case anyone else is mad enough to want to do iron man, here are a couple more sets of random pairings:

(click to show/hide)

(click to show/hide)
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Morgenstern
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« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2011, 11:58:23 AM »

For some ridiculous reason, I decided to try and do this ironman.

A bold strategy Smiley.

Quote
Random assignation of skills to pairings gave the following:

Focus + Bluff = Manipulator
Sneak + Tactics = Commando
Misdirection + Survival = Thieving hermit
Bargain + Stunts = Street Acrobat
Riding + Sense Motive = Horse whisperer?
Investigate + Athletics = Manhunter
Disguise + Appeal = Actor
Awareness + Intimidation = Bodyguard
Blend + Expertise = Shy maestro

Some of those pairings were much less natural than others...

EDIT: If I cheat, and chop and change the four worst pairings to suit me, I get these:

Misdirection + Stunts = Entertainer
Riding + Survival = Nomad
Bargain + Expertise = Businessman
Sense Motive + Blend = Imposter
Plus the five which can stay (Manipulator, Commando, Manhunter, Actor, and Bodyguard)

Other combinations eventually become useful for things like Species feats, btu there's some inteserting names in there Smiley.
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Morgenstern
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« Reply #12 on: November 30, 2011, 12:00:53 PM »

On the basis that the 6 key skills couldn't be paired with each other.

That's probably a very good restriction. *yoink*

Quote
Aggressor: (Athletics & Intimidation)
Social Predator: (Appeal & Blend)
Infiltrator: (Expertise & Sneak)
Dogged: (Focus & Investigate)
Magician: (Bargain & Misdirection)
Reader: (Awareness & Sense Motive)
Daredevil: (Stunts & RidingHandle)
Liar: (Bluff & Disguise)
Hunter: (Tactics & Survival)

*ponder*
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Morgenstern
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« Reply #13 on: November 30, 2011, 12:09:29 PM »

The skills pretty much juggle the checks we have now into a slightly smaller number of piles

Skill Renames
Parley (was Haggle)
Focus (was Resolve)
Expertise (includes Crafting & Medicine)
Misdirection (was Prestidigitation)
Vigilance (combines Notice & Search)

And all skills are ACTIVE in this scheme. Even Vigilance Smiley. Truely passive benefits would be managed as class abilities or feats.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2012, 12:48:09 AM by Morgenstern » Logged

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« Reply #14 on: December 09, 2011, 02:34:31 AM »

There are 153 total skill combinations, 15 of which are Key/Key and thus  either completely out of bounds or restricted to a higher level character option.

For any given group of 9 (where the first 6 slots feature a Key skill):

1st slot has (18-1-5=12) possible solutions
2nd slot has (18-2-1-4=11) possible solutions
3rd slot has (18-4-1-3=10) possible solutions
4th slot has (18-6-1-2=9) possible solutions
5th slot has (18-8-1-1=8) possible solutions
6th slot has (18-10-1=7) possible solutions
7th slot has (18-12-1=5) possible solutions
8th slot has (18-14-1=3) possible solutions
9th is the remainder at 1 solution

Someone good at maths can work out how many all-inclusive groupings are possible from that, I'm sure.
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