[A New Pie] Challenge: New Basic Skill Mastery pairings

[Mister Andersen]

Which skill covers the old 2.0 Innuendo check?

[spinningdice]

Either Bluff or Misdirection, I'd go with Misdirection personally.

[Mister Andersen]

2.0 made it a sense motive check, and there is an appealing simplicity and logic in needing only one skill to handle the creation and interpretation of subtext.

Given that Misdirection ~ Prestidigitation, and the emminently logical guess that the Disable check is getting moved to Expertise where it belongs, that leaves us with Conceal Action and Stash, both of which feel better suited to Savvy as their parent attribute. Throwing in Innuendo then pretty much seems to seal the deal to trade Misdirection for Tactics.


There's also the question of how the new pie interacts with...

• Saves: Fortitude feeding on Fitness seems to most logical, as does Will linking to Resolve. That would then leave Reflex, which to my eye is probably best linked with Vigilance.
• Combat: Fitness modifies Vitality, Precision modifies ranged combat, Resolve affects Unarmed and Melee combat, Awareness modifies Defence.

[Mister Andersen]

Grace: Movement
   Appeal -
   Misdirection - conceal action
   Stealth - sneak
Insight: How the world works
   Expertise
   Blend
   Disguise
Fitness: The body's deliberate physical interaction with the world  
   Athletics - climb, push limit, swim
   Handle -
   Stunts - impact, jump, tumble
Perception: What's going on in the world around you
   Awareness
   Investigate
   Sense Motive
Savvy: Getting inside other people's heads
   Negotiate
   Bluff
   Tactics
Determination: Exerting your will on the world
   Resolve
   Intimidation
   Survival

[Morgenstern]

I was avoiding "perception" because I wanted the attribute names ot make sense as things you could improve, whereas perception sort of smacks of a finite physical limit.

You can increase your vigilance, you don't typically increase your perception.

[Mister Andersen]

I think you can just as easily become more perceptive as you can become more vigilant.

[Morgenstern]

There's some evocative names in your list. I've made a few changes to cut off a few problems (damn Riding skill...). I think I've ironed the list out so I can use this set-up as the basis for a Farthest Star/sci-fi setting packet. I want to keep Grace as an interesting hybrid of physical and social competence rather than a pure movement stat. Seeing the modifiers in action should help establish the function of each attribute along side its skills.

I'm also looking to eliminate some of the confusion caused by passive/active skill splits, with all skills being somewhat dynamic, and passive checks being special case uses of those skills. That means in this context Blend is an active skill used to match your environment to avoid alerting obsevers, while sneak is an active skill used to avoid detection by observers (subtle but important difference).

My pie is currently looking like~

   Awareness modifier is added to initiative rolls, ranged defense, and Reflex saves.
   Determination modifier is added to vitality per level, social defense, and Willpower saves.
   Fitness modifier is added to melee/unarmed attack checks and Fortitude Saves. Fitness score sets Health.
   Grace modifier is added to lifestyle, melee/unarmed Defense, and spell (FX) save DCs.
   Guile modifier is added to social attack checks and skill points per level. Guile score sets Spells (FX) known.
   Precision modifier is added to starting proficiencies, ranged attack checks, and spellcasting (FX) checks.

Awareness Skills
●  Vigilance
   Investigate
   Sense Motive
Determination Skills
●  Focus
   Intimidation
   Survival
Fitness Skills
●  Athletics
   Stealth
   Stunts
Grace Skills
●  Appeal
   Blend
   Disguise
Guile Skills
●  Deceit
   Parley
   Tactics
Precision Skills
●  Expertise (multiple focuses)
   Misdirection
   Transport (multiple focuses)

Armor check penalties would apply to Fitness, Grace, and Precision Skills. Spellcasting would be a Precision-based check and finally subject to the oft-expected penalty from armor .

Basic Skill Mastery Pairs

Daredevil: Stunts, Transport
Ghost: Blend, Stealth
Imposter: Disguise, Vigilance
Journalist: Focus, Investigate
Liar: Deceit, Misdirection
Manipulator: Appeal, Intimidation
Negotiator: Parley, Sense Motive
Outdoorsman: Athletics, Survival
Planer: Expertise, Tactics

Quite a few other pairings make sense and inspire catchy names, but those can be granted via Origins or feats.

[Morgenstern]

Just farting around after having watched some of the second season of the BBC modern day Sherlock and the movie Sherlock Holmes: A Game of Shadows and looking at how the two takes on the character differ...

pre-Origin stat arrays I get~

Sherlock: BBC
Awareness 18, Determination 12, Fitness 10, Grace 8 , Guile 10, Precision 13

Sherlock: Game of Shadows
Awareness 16, Determination 12, Fitness 13, Grace 13 , Guile 10, Precision 12

 

[Morgenstern]

Which skill covers the old 2.0 Innuendo check?

I can now happily include that activity in Parley (under the umbrella of Guile )

[Mister Andersen]

Ironically, I'd just decided that I'd swap the positions of Disguise and Parley, myself.

I like the idea that the Disguise skill would cover innuendo checks (disguising motive).

[Morgenstern]

Just did some quick class updating to use this pie and the results were very satisfying.

Assassin
   Favored Attributes: Grace, Guile
   Class Skills: Blend, Deceit, Disguise, Expertise, Focus, Intimidate, Misdirection, Sense Motive, Tactics, Vigilance
   Skill Points: 6 + Guile modifier per level
   Morale: 9 + Determination modifier per level
   Starting proficiencies: 4 + Precision modifier

   Hand of Death: Blend and Focus
   Masks – Expert (was Expertise): Blend, Deceit, Disguise, Expertise, Focus, Intimidate, Misdirection, Sense Motive, Tactics, Vigilance
   Masks – Fake It: Deceit.
   Masks – Follow My Lead: Guile modifier.


Burglar
   Favored Attributes: Precision, Fitness
   Class Skills: Athletics, Deceit, Expertise, Intimidate, Investigate, Misdirection, Parley, Stealth, Stunts, Tactics, Transport, Vigilance
   Skill Points: 8 + Guile modifier per level
   Morale: 6 + Determination modifier per level
   Starting proficiencies: 3 + Precision modifier

   Very, Very Sneaky: Stealth and Stunts
   Uncanny Dodge I: Attribute bonus to defense
   Bag of Tricks – Bloody Mess: Precision modifier
   Bag of Tricks – Expert (was Expertise): Athletics, Deceit, Expertise, Intimidate, Investigate, Misdirection, Parley, Stealth, Stunts, Tactics, Transport, Vigilance
   Bag of Tricks – Slippery: Stunts in place of Focus
   Bag of Tricks – Stick Close and Don’t Make a Sound: Stealth check
   I’ll Cut You!: Precision modifier


Captain
   Favored Attributes: Guile, Awareness, Determination
   Class Skills: Athletics, Expertise, Focus, Intimidate, Parley, Sense Motive, Survival, Tactics, Transport, Vigilance
   Skill Points: 6 + Guile modifier per level
   Morale: 9 + Determination modifier per level
   Starting proficiencies: 3 + Precision modifier

   Take Command: Transport checks to control, Expertise checks to heal or repair
   Watchful (was Allure): At Levels 5, 9, 13, and 17, your Awareness score rises by 1.


Courtier
   Favored Attributes: Guile, Grace
   Class Skills: Appeal, Deceit, Focus, Intimidate, Investigate, Misdirection, Parley, Sense Motive, Transport, Vigilance
   Skill Points: 6 + Guile modifier per level
   Morale: 9 + Determination modifier per level
   Starting proficiencies: 3 + Precision modifier

   With a Word: Appeal and Parley
   Gifts and Favors III: Expertise checks
   Eloquence: lower of Grace or Guile
   Power Play – Expert (was Expertise): Appeal, Deceit, Focus, Intimidate, Investigate, Misdirection, Parley, Sense Motive, Transport, Vigilance
   Power Play – Slanderous: Guile modifier
   Master Plan I: Guile modifier (minimum 2)


Explorer
   Favored Attributes: Guile, Determination
   Class Skills: Athletics, Blend, Focus, Investigate, Misdirection, Parley, Stunts, Survival, Transport, Vigilance
   Skill Points: 6 + Guile modifier per level
   Morale: 9 + Determination modifier per level
   Starting proficiencies: 4 + Precision modifier

   Tomb Raider: Athletics and Investigate
   Uncanny Dodge I: Attribute bonus to defense
   Rugged: Determination
   Lifeline: Morale


Keeper
   Favored Attributes: Precision, Guile
   Class Skills: Appeal, Deceit, Disguise, Expertise, Focus, Investigate, Parley, Sense Motive, Survival, Tactics, Transport, Vigilance
   Skill Points: 8 + Guile modifier per level
   Morale: 6 + Determination modifier per level
   Starting proficiencies: 2 + Precision modifier

   Man of Reason: Expertise and Focus
   Trade Secrets: choose one: Appeal, Deceit, Disguise, Expertise, Focus, Investigate, Parley, Sense Motive, Survival, Tactics, Transport, Vigilance
   Bright Idea: Awareness-, Determination-, or Guile-based skill check
   The Right Tools – Crafting Recognition: Expertise focus
   The Right Tools – Expert (was Expertise): Appeal, Deceit, Disguise, Expertise, Focus, Investigate, Parley, Sense Motive, Survival, Tactics, Transport, Vigilance
   Perfectionist (was Brilliant): At Levels 6, 9, 12, 15, and 18, your Precision score rises by 1.
   Instant Solution: Precision-based


Lancer
   Favored Attributes: Determination, Precision, Fitness
   Class Skills: Appeal, Athletics, Focus, Intimidate, Survival, Tactics, Transport, Vigilance
   Skill Points: 4 + Guile modifier per level
   Morale: 12 + Determination modifier per level
   Starting proficiencies: 6 + Precision modifier

   Man of Reason: Intimidate and Transport (mounts)
   Mettle I-III: maximum Focus rank
   Master Rider: Transport check
  

Mage
   Requirements: Sorcery campaign quality
   Favored Attributes: Grace, Guile, Precision
   Caster: Each level in this class increases your Casting Level by 1.
   Class Skills: Appeal, Deceit, Expertise, Focus, Intimidate, Investigate, Misdirection, Parley, Sense Motive, Survival, Transport, Vigilance
   Skill Points: 8 + Guile modifier per level
   Morale: 6 + Determination modifier per level
   Starting proficiencies: 2 + Precision modifier

   Arcane Might: highest of your Grace, Guile, or Precision
  

Sage
   Favored Attributes: Any
   Class Skills: Athletics, Disguise, Expertise, Investigate, Parley, Sense Motive, Survival, Tactics, Transport, Vigilance
   Skill Points: 6 + Guile modifier per level
   Morale: 9 + Determination modifier per level
   Starting proficiencies: 4 + Precision modifier

   Take Heart: Morale


Scout
   Favored Attributes: Precision, Determination
   Class Skills: Athletics, Blend, Expertise, Focus, Stealth, Stunts, Survival, Tactics, Transport, Vigilance
   Skill Points: 6 + Guile modifier per level
   Morale: 9 + Determination modifier per level
   Starting proficiencies: 4 + Precision modifier

   Huntsman – Expert (was Expertise): Athletics, Blend, Expertise, Focus, Stealth, Stunts, Survival, Tactics, Transport, Vigilance


Soldier
   Favored Attributes: Determination, Fitness Precision (not always in that order)
   Class Skills: Athletics, Expertise, Focus, Intimidate, Parley, Survival, Tactics, Vigilance
   Skill Points: 4 + Guile modifier per level
   Morale: 12 + Determination modifier per level
   Starting proficiencies: 6 + Precision modifier

   Weapon Specialist – Master Weaponsmith: Ranks in Expertise
   One in a Million: Determination- or Fitness-based skill check

[Mister Andersen]

Hmmmm. Morale. Me likey.

[Morgenstern]

Hmmmm. Morale. Me likey.

Future proofing to go with the "Live to Fight Another Day" rules (the players don't die stuff, other thread). Health and morale seem a lot easier to explain than wounds and vitality.

Basically I see a Farthest Star packet running under 3 major campaign qualities - A New Pie, Live to Fight another Day, and FTL Era.

Some new/adapted classes, setting-themed origins, couple of splinter species feats for humans, a heap of gear and booya.

[Mister Andersen]

So, how does the system play out if you do swap Parley and Disguise?

[Morgenstern]

So, how does the system play out if you do swap Parley and Disguise?

Breaks a couple things. Grace is presently a mostly physical pressence (somewhere between Dexterity and the on-again-off-again Commliness attribute of old D&D). Guile is a mostly mental stat focused on how other people tick. Right now Disguise gets an armor check penalty (reasonable) and Parley does not (reasonable). Swapping them breaks up those themes and moves armor check penalties around in a way that doesn't please me.