Spells at character creation

[flexi]

I have dipped into and used things from FC for some time as it is a great fantasy toolkit but was a little intimidated by it's crunchiness.
 I have now really just started to thoroughly read the system and am loving the way it plays. I am just ploughing through character creation now and examining the wonderful variety of possibilities, all in one book too!

Question: If I am reading this right, at character creation arcane casters learn all their spells at any level when they gain their first casting level and these spells cannot be exchanged. Is this correct?

Do I have to choose my higher level spells right away at the beginning, even though I cannot cast them at a lower level?

Can someone point me in the way of an example of character creation?

Hope someone can help.

[Gentry]

As written, yes, you select all your spells at creation. Keep in mind, though, that every time your spellcasting skill ranks rise (or your Wisdom increases), you get spells equal to the change. In Fantasy Craft, if X=Y, X always =Y, even if the value of X changes.

This topic had some interesting traffic concerning how to choose your main block of spells along a theme.

And that said, it's a trivial house ruling to let spellcasters leave some of their slots open to be filled in play.

Someday someone will do a full character generation walkthrough. But that day has not come yet.

[flexi]

Thanks Gentry!

I suppose one has the opportunity of choosing new spells when your Wisdom goes up etc but it seems an odd restriction that everything else has to be chosen at the start. Maybe I am comparing it to old D&D where you just gained a certain amount of spells of an appropriate level when you levelled up.

You are right that this can be amended with a simple house rule.

I hope someone in the future will supply a useful chargen walkthrough.

[Charlie D]

As written, yes, you select all your spells at creation. Keep in mind, though, that every time your spellcasting skill ranks rise (or your Wisdom increases), you get spells equal to the change. In Fantasy Craft, if X=Y, X always =Y, even if the value of X changes.

This topic had some interesting traffic concerning how to choose your main block of spells along a theme.

And that said, it's a trivial house ruling to let spellcasters leave some of their slots open to be filled in play.

Someday someone will do a full character generation walkthrough. But that day has not come yet.

A player of mind found a detailed character walkthrough checklist online. Or are you talking about an example of full character creation from Step 0 to the end? I'm new to Fantasy Craft and have helped make up some characters. If an example of creating one of those characters would be interesting, I'd be willing to write it up and post it here.

[ludomastro]

As would I.  However, it would have to be after my next in-store demo game.

[Sletchman]

Might be a worthwhile forum project - not unlike Catodons reviewing FC thread.  That way if the writer misses anything important it can be added by others.

[LordKruelos]

To speed up character creation, I've had Mages decide how many 0 and 1st level spells they know at creation (out of their total pool) and leave the rest as an undefined blob until the game has progressed for awhile.

[ArawnNox]

To speed up character creation, I've had Mages decide how many 0 and 1st level spells they know at creation (out of their total pool) and leave the rest as an undefined blob until the game has progressed for awhile.

This was my solution as well.

[Sletchman]

To speed up character creation, I've had Mages decide how many 0 and 1st level spells they know at creation (out of their total pool) and leave the rest as an undefined blob until the game has progressed for awhile.

I would have no problem with a player taking as few spells as they wanted to at creation.  My only rule would be that they can only increase their known spells during downtime - no spawning spells on the fly (that would be quite feat-worthy, I think - possibly even too good for a feat).  As always, if problems persist, please see your GM.

[paddyfool]

no spawning spells on the fly (that would be quite feat-worthy, I think - possibly even too good for a feat). 

Indeed, we had a look at what it might be reasonable for a feat to do in this instance some time ago.

[flexi]

To speed up character creation, I've had Mages decide how many 0 and 1st level spells they know at creation (out of their total pool) and leave the rest as an undefined blob until the game has progressed for awhile.

Thanks LordKruelos, this would work for me.

Considering how much freedom FC gives one at character creation, it seems odd how restrictive the rules are in telling you to choose all your spells at the beginning.
Does anyone know what the reasons were for having it this way?


A character creation example would be much appreciated if one of you chaps can devote the time to putting one up.
 It is always interesting  and inspiring to see how and why people make their choices in creating a character.
 I think it would be a great help for new players.

[Sletchman]

Considering how much freedom FC gives one at character creation, it seems odd how restrictive the rules are in telling you to choose all your spells at the beginning.
Does anyone know what the reasons were for having it this way?

Technically, it doesn't.  It's a pretty fine line, but the game just tells you how many spells you can know and leaves the rest to the GM - it doesn't actually have anywhere "You learn this many spells at character creation." or anything to that effect.  It might sound like a cop out, but the idea is that the GM will determine how a player learns spells (by scrolls, by a magical epiphany, by research, or by any of a dozen other reasons) and that dictates when a player adds spells to their list.

It does this on a LOT of stuff - which is one of the system's big strengths in my opinion (it being a fantasy toolkit).  Of course if Pat / Alex want to correct me on intent, that would be fantastic - I wouldn't want to second guess author intent.

no spawning spells on the fly (that would be quite feat-worthy, I think - possibly even too good for a feat). 

Indeed, we had a look at what it might be reasonable for a feat to do in this instance some time ago.

Neat, and quite the coincidence - I was even thinking it should be called "I can Fly".  Think I'll add one line to Morg's feat at the end of the thread and float it out to my group, see how they like it.

[Morgenstern]

Considering how much freedom FC gives one at character creation, it seems odd how restrictive the rules are in telling you to choose all your spells at the beginning.
Does anyone know what the reasons were for having it this way?

Unfortunately, because the Mage was not written for beginners. It was written for players who have a fair-to-high level of system mastery who could work with their GM to establish their brand of magic at character creation so the GM could in turn work that into the setting - to say "I am making a pyromancer-ish style of magic!" or "I want to be a versitile summoner with dozens of magical servants!" and with the initial 17-or-so spell choices effectively write their own Mage class, one that is NOT the infinitely flexible and flawlessly-adapted-to-every-challenge class nearly every player seems to end up expecting Mages to be . The GM could then take your spell list and say "Ok, there are pyromancers in the world (like you)" and use that to create part of the ecology of magic in the world - an environment that logically produced your character. The steady trickle of new spells known comming in as the campaign prgressed would let you dynamically tune your spell choices to account for how the GM actually presented challenges to the players. Keep needing dispel magic but didn't have it in your inital list? No problem, use one of your semi-precious expansion slots to add that to your toolbox.

It puts a facet of world creation into player hands, but it is also a restriction that helps keep them from overshadowing other character classes... A restriction regularly removed with reports equally regularly coming in of "yeah, mages are a little too powerful". Pull one of their biggest restrictions and I'm not surprised they're outperforming classes that have their role clearly defined up front.

[Morgenstern]

This thread may be of help in seeing how selecting most or all of you spells at character creation as instructed by the RAW gives theme and structure to the Mage class .

http://www.crafty-games.com/forum/index.php?topic=4994.0

Edit: Dur, Gentry linked this in the very first reply. Me am clever.

[LordKruelos]

Considering how much freedom FC gives one at character creation, it seems odd how restrictive the rules are in telling you to choose all your spells at the beginning.
Does anyone know what the reasons were for having it this way?

Unfortunately, because the Mage was not written for beginners. It was written for players who have a fair-to-high level of system mastery who could work with their GM to establish their brand of magic at character creation so the GM could in turn work that into the setting

I feel you on this, Scott, and for an experienced group I agree 100%, but in my neck of the woods getting new players to try something other than D&D is an painful uphill struggle, so making the accommodation of having starting characters pick the spells they can cast initially (and then if they stick around long enough to level up, having them finish the spell selection upon leveling up) seemed like an acceptable sin at my table.