Shape Stone as an attack spell.

[Lockout]

Tonight we were fighting a vampire and a mage attempted to cast "Shape Stone" in order to encase the vampire in some stone (sufficient stone to completely encase him).

How we handled it was:
Vampire makes a terminal reflex save.

Any thoughts/opinions?

[Morgenstern]

I might consider it a grapple check, using the caster's Spellcasting (Cha) instead of Athletics (Str).

Hmm. That sould work for a number of things in an Avatar: The Last Airbender kind of setting.

[Morgenstern]

Tonight we were fighting a vampire and a mage attempted to cast "Shape Stone" in order to encase the vampire in some stone (sufficient stone to completely encase him).

How we handled it was:
Vampire makes a terminal reflex save.

Any thoughts/opinions?

Sorry, was just musing there a moment. Your solution seems quite equitable.

[Gentry]

Vampire makes a terminal reflex save.

Where the save DC is the caster's usual spell save DC? That feels reasonable.

[spinningdice]

I've always thought of shape stone as being relatively slow (don't have the text to hand to check, so i'd be more hesitant on this. Now if you've got a buddy holding him down while you shape stone over him,that would qualify as cool in my game.

[TheTSKoala]

Cool idea.. but my brain is grappling with it.

So, best case scenario.  It's a touch spell and instant.  Existing stone.  Soooo.. the target would have to be standing (?) on the stone with you.   Maybe a cliff?  But now comes the cubic foot requirement. 

Average person say.. 65 inches tall.  11 inches width.  ...now.. someone who is better at math than me.. please... correct me.  Rough guess.  Front of toes to back of head is depth for a person??  So.. I dunno.. 60 inches?  If that math is right (and I'm not even sure I'm close on depth..), you would need ...3,575 cubic ft of stone?  Again.. not sure on depth. 

However.. even if it's only W x L, you're still looking at 715 sq. inches (59.58 sq. ft.)  So.. if my math is even remotely close, it'd be neigh impossible to entomb an entire person in one cast.

[Deral]

Cool idea.. but my brain is grappling with it.

So, best case scenario.  It's a touch spell and instant.  Existing stone.  Soooo.. the target would have to be standing (?) on the stone with you.   Maybe a cliff?  But now comes the cubic foot requirement. 

Average person say.. 65 inches tall.  11 inches width.  ...now.. someone who is better at math than me.. please... correct me.  Rough guess.  Front of toes to back of head is depth for a person??  So.. I dunno.. 60 inches?  If that math is right (and I'm not even sure I'm close on depth..), you would need ...3,575 cubic ft of stone?  Again.. not sure on depth. 

However.. even if it's only W x L, you're still looking at 715 sq. inches (59.58 sq. ft.)  So.. if my math is even remotely close, it'd be neigh impossible to entomb an entire person in one cast.

I think you have some unit disagreement (going from cubic inches to feet instead of cubic feet- I think), but even a 5x5x5ft cube (60inx60inx60in) is 125 cubic feet and needs a 114th level caster. However, lets say 2.5ft wide, 1.5ft deep, and 6ft tall gets you 22.5 cubic feet, which is a little out of range for a low level caster, but certainly within the realm of possibility. (Now, did I do my math wrong?)

[TheTSKoala]

Cool idea.. but my brain is grappling with it.

So, best case scenario.  It's a touch spell and instant.  Existing stone.  Soooo.. the target would have to be standing (?) on the stone with you.   Maybe a cliff?  But now comes the cubic foot requirement. 

Average person say.. 65 inches tall.  11 inches width.  ...now.. someone who is better at math than me.. please... correct me.  Rough guess.  Front of toes to back of head is depth for a person??  So.. I dunno.. 60 inches?  If that math is right (and I'm not even sure I'm close on depth..), you would need ...3,575 cubic ft of stone?  Again.. not sure on depth. 

However.. even if it's only W x L, you're still looking at 715 sq. inches (59.58 sq. ft.)  So.. if my math is even remotely close, it'd be neigh impossible to entomb an entire person in one cast.

I think you have some unit disagreement (going from cubic inches to feet instead of cubic feet- I think), but even a 5x5x5ft cube (60inx60inx60in) is 125 cubic feet and needs a 114th level caster. However, lets say 2.5ft wide, 1.5ft deep, and 6ft tall gets you 22.5 cubic feet, which is a little out of range for a low level caster, but certainly within the realm of possibility. (Now, did I do my math wrong?)

Oh.. quite possible.  I went " x " x " = " / 12.  The ometries weren't exactly my strong suit.  lol

[Deral]

Cool idea.. but my brain is grappling with it.

So, best case scenario.  It's a touch spell and instant.  Existing stone.  Soooo.. the target would have to be standing (?) on the stone with you.   Maybe a cliff?  But now comes the cubic foot requirement. 

Average person say.. 65 inches tall.  11 inches width.  ...now.. someone who is better at math than me.. please... correct me.  Rough guess.  Front of toes to back of head is depth for a person??  So.. I dunno.. 60 inches?  If that math is right (and I'm not even sure I'm close on depth..), you would need ...3,575 cubic ft of stone?  Again.. not sure on depth. 

However.. even if it's only W x L, you're still looking at 715 sq. inches (59.58 sq. ft.)  So.. if my math is even remotely close, it'd be neigh impossible to entomb an entire person in one cast.

I think you have some unit disagreement (going from cubic inches to feet instead of cubic feet- I think), but even a 5x5x5ft cube (60inx60inx60in) is 125 cubic feet and needs a 114th level caster. However, lets say 2.5ft wide, 1.5ft deep, and 6ft tall gets you 22.5 cubic feet, which is a little out of range for a low level caster, but certainly within the realm of possibility. (Now, did I do my math wrong?)

Oh.. quite possible.  I went " x " x " = " / 12.  The ometries weren't exactly my strong suit.  lol

Fair enough! Another note, I couldn't think of stone varieties off the top of my head but it'd be quite heavy: http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=22.5+cu+ft+of+limestone

[Bill Whitmore]

Well, you don't need to shape stone equal to the volume of the target, just the surface area of the target.  You don't need to shape stone into the hollow middle.

If I wanted to create a box 6 feet high, 2 feet wide and 2 feet deep then the surface area of the box would be 56 square feet (4 sides being 2ft x 6ft and 2 sides being 2ft x 2ft the full area is 4 X (2ft x 6ft) + 2 X (2ft x 2ft) = 56 ft²).

Assuming a level 7 caster (normally required for a 3rd level spell) than the caster has 17 cubic feet to work with.  17 ft³ / 56 ft² = .30 ft.  .30 feet of thickness is roughly 3 and a half inches thick.

So a level 7 caster can convert 17 cubic feet of stone into a stone cell 6ft x 2ft x 2ft with the walls being 3.5 inches thick, assuming he had to form all 6 sides.  More likely, you don't need to do 1, or even 2, sides if the target is standing on stone or adjacent to a stone wall or both.

However, it would be possible for someone to break out of that since the damage save of the object would be +10 (Stone +10, thickness 3 inches +0).

[TheTSKoala]

I suddenly just remembered my entire freshman year of college.  I now have a headache. lol.  Thanks Bill & Deral. 

Edit:  I meant thanks for the math help.. not the headache. lol

[ArawnNox]

Bill beat me to the point about surface area, only I wouldn't have had nearly as much math to back it up. Haven't had to think about that stuff since my first year of college....

[Bill Whitmore]

I suddenly just remembered my entire freshman year of college.  I now have a headache. lol.  Thanks Bill & Deral. 

Edit:  I meant thanks for the math help.. not the headache. lol

Your welcome.  I tried to keep it simple by not taking into account that the surface area gets bigger as the thickness increases. I would have had to bust out the Calculus books for that, because I don't remember those formulas, either. 

[Deral]

I suddenly just remembered my entire freshman year of college.  I now have a headache. lol.  Thanks Bill & Deral. 

Edit:  I meant thanks for the math help.. not the headache. lol

Your welcome.  I tried to keep it simple by not taking into account that the surface area gets bigger as the thickness increases. I would have had to bust out the Calculus books for that, because I don't remember those formulas, either. 

Yeah I don't know why I didn't consider taking the target OUT of the volume, but hey, for quick generalizations, Wolfram has your back there, as well: http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=average+volume+of+human+body+in+cubic+feet drops my total needed volume to about 19 cu ft, being a bit thicker that yours that sounds about right!