Classic Knight

[Antilles]

Page 239, Player-created NPCs would seem to disagree with you. I'm also pretty certain I asked about this in the FAQ thread ages ago, and the official answer was that if you wanted the NPC to keep something longer than an adventure (i.e. looting a usable piece of equipment) you'd have to pay for it in XP.

[Krensky]

The official answer was you can give whatever you want to an NPC without having them pay XP for it. Of course if they loose it, it's gone.

Paying for gear with XP is to stop you from rolling your Personal Lieutenant for gear, not to keep them under-equipped.

[Mister Andersen]

Also, work out ahead of time what share of any treasure found party NPCs are or should be entitled to.

[pawsplay]

The official answer was you can give whatever you want to an NPC without having them pay XP for it. Of course if they loose it, it's gone.

Paying for gear with XP is to stop you from rolling your Personal Lieutenant for gear, not to keep them under-equipped.

Otherwise, they could never own, use, or carry anything higher than Complexity 15. I always read those rules as saying "Here is some free stuff for your dude, but it costs XP," and also that it covered what gear your NPC re-spawned with if that ever came about.  Prudence doesn't apply to your own gear, I don't see why NPCs would be affected by Mega-Prudence.

[Antilles]

I was just going by the book as it specifies that all gear assigned to an NPC cost XP. I'm also aware of this, which I believe is Alex's personal preference, not official rules clarification.

Now, I've nothing against letting PL's keep stuff 'for free' as it were, just wanted to point out that that isn't the default state of things and will require GM approval.

[pawsplay]

I was just going by the book as it specifies that all gear assigned to an NPC cost XP. I'm also aware of this, which I believe is Alex's personal preference, not official rules clarification.

Now, I've nothing against letting PL's keep stuff 'for free' as it were, just wanted to point out that that isn't the default state of things and will require GM approval.

So what happens when an elf fencers hands his elven rapier (comp 17) to his elf Personal Lieutenant? The universe explodes?

[Antilles]

Nothing, he just can't keep it after the adventure's done. Yes, it's a bit silly, and yes, I can easily see (and understand) why GM's would Rule Zero it, I'm just saying that that's the RAW.

[Crafty_Pat]

Nothing, he just can't keep it after the adventure's done. Yes, it's a bit silly, and yes, I can easily see (and understand) why GM's would Rule Zero it, I'm just saying that that's the RAW.

It's to prevent the equally silly, "We have 500 rapiers in that barn over there - because we keep handing them off to an NPC for safekeeping and he likes to hoard them. what of it?"

In some cases it's better to let groups explain mechanics within the context of their games than force the mechanics to "fit" the universe (or worse, all universes).

[pawsplay]

Nothing, he just can't keep it after the adventure's done. Yes, it's a bit silly, and yes, I can easily see (and understand) why GM's would Rule Zero it, I'm just saying that that's the RAW.

It's to prevent the equally silly, "We have 500 rapiers in that barn over there - because we keep handing them off to an NPC for safekeeping and he likes to hoard them. what of it?"

What is to prevent PCs from hoarding 500 rapiers?

[Agent 333]

I don't much see the difference between "Here, PL, have this rapier." and "Here, hold this rapier for now, but I'll need it back at the end of the adventure. Don't worry, I'll give it to you again when we go out adventuring, but you can't hold it during downtime between adventures."
Well, I could kind of see it if the character were a quartermaster for the military or something, but mechanically it ends up the same, so the flavor is just the icing...

[Krensky]

I don't much see the difference between "Here, PL, have this rapier." and "Here, hold this rapier for now, but I'll need it back at the end of the adventure. Don't worry, I'll give it to you again when we go out adventuring, but you can't hold it during downtime between adventures."
Well, I could kind of see it if the character were a quartermaster for the military or something, but mechanically it ends up the same, so the flavor is just the icing...

Sure, I could give you a Rapier, but then I'd have only 499 and would be below establishment and have to procure more.

[Morgenstern]

That PLs and ACs "cannot have gear assigned to them via XP cost (instad the player character must provide their gear via the normal coin economy)." Is HIGH on my list of house rules and suggestions for errata.

Having spent a little more time abusing he hell out of them for the Rokugan conversion, I'm planning on banning those 2 feats In Pa'senna and offering somewhat toned down, more setting-specific alternatives. Mostly in the sense that the XP values shouldn't go up as fast as they do. 5 XP as an additional benefit of choosing another feat in the same tree ratchets them up way too fast.

[Bhurano]

You find that 5 XP bonus per relevant feat for an AP or PL is to much? I don't see a problem with that, but on the other hand nobody tried to abuse it for now.

We had one player, who went Scout/Beastmaster and he would have liked to have more Terrain Feats to buff his wargs. He invested many of his feats into terrain feats to strenghten his minions and it seemed fine. Especially if I compare it to the character of another buddy who played, in the same game, a Scout optimized for Ranged Death. Lowering the advancement of the XP given per Terrain Feat wouldn't have been helpful nor fun. That's my opinion, and again it might have to do with the fact, that a dropped dead minion at our table isn't all to easily replacable. After both his wargs died he tried to come up with solution where to aquire some exotic animals. Given that we at the time played mostly in and around a metropolis were exotic beasts weren't to common, he ran into quite some hindrances. The guy who played a captain in our very first game went to a cathedral to rally a paladin to his cause... complete with antagonizing the local high priest of his faith.

Buying the equipment for minions is something that I find far more preferable than using XP. Sure, it works for most of the equipment like a blast - and certainly helps if your GM isn't handing out more starting money -  but straight out buying/crafting it allows me to circumvent the complexity limitation. So that I can put my minions in similar quality stuff than my char... and keep up a theme like elven-made arms and armor, a good upgraded and mastercrafted weapon or something entirely else.

[Morgenstern]

You find that 5 XP bonus per relevant feat for an AP or PL is to much? I don't see a problem with that, but on the other hand nobody tried to abuse it for now.

A little bit. "I get a feat and my pet gets (another) grade of Toughness." can spiral pretty fast. Even 4 per feat would be a bit better for that reason. At the same time, if the multipier went down to say 2/feat, I'd also probably intorduce a feat that the only thing it did was add +8 Xp to the vlue of your pet (That and the +2 for it being a feat adding up to 10). Then if you wanted a big pet you could specifically expend a feat to do so.

We had one player, who went Scout/Beastmaster and he would have liked to have more Terrain Feats to buff his wargs. He invested many of his feats into terrain feats to strenghten his minions and it seemed fine. Especially if I compare it to the character of another buddy who played, in the same game, a Scout optimized for Ranged Death. Lowering the advancement of the XP given per Terrain Feat wouldn't have been helpful nor fun. That's my opinion, and again it might have to do with the fact, that a dropped dead minion at our table isn't all to easily replacable.

It's certainly good ot hear its working for some folks.

[The_Grand_User]

"I get a feat and my pet gets (another) grade of Toughness." can spiral pretty fast.

That's where the required DM approval comes in if it's a problem

Though in our group's brief experience thus far, the companion having a TL 4 less than the players (we're 5th) has caused more problems the other way, he's been very easy to hit and very hard for him to hit the enemies, so next to useless. Hoping that'll improve as we go up in levels though.