Question to GMS: Do your NPCs taunt player characters?

[Morgenstern]

Mastercraft has very few forced actions, but Taunt is one that's accessible to any character with a decent Sense Motive.

Do you find yourself using this option much?

If yes, how well are your players taking it when their actions are constrained this way?

Do you see players using it much? (or is trade off of spending an action to redirect attacks not viewed as supperior to just attacking yourself?)

[Agent 333]

I can't say I've ever had an NPC Taunt a PC, but I'm currently playing a PC that Taunts regularly (Aggro Basics helps a lot), and I've had a Big Bad actually get finished off due to a well placed Taunt...

[Sletchman]

I've used it sparingly - one of my players in particular would complain endlessly if I used it against them, and it doesn't feel fair giving a single player immunity to a particular action, so don't use it much against the others.

The group (and myself on the rare time I get to play), use it a bit - though I use it far more then them (build dependant of course).  A while back, I played a sword and board fighter who used it extensively to protect the squishy party members (Grizzled Captain w/ Great Fortitude -> Paladin, could really take a hit - pre-Aggro, unfortunately).

Speaking only for myself, if I got Taunted on a regular basis by NPCs, I'd consider it incentive to get some Sense Motive, not something to begrudge.  I also think it should be resisted by Resolve (resolve check to maintain composure, and not lose your cool) and possibly initaited with Bluff - I honestly don't get the Sense Motive vs Sense Motive reasoning, at all, and any insight would be appreciated.

[paddyfool]

Speaking only for myself, if I got Taunted on a regular basis by NPCs, I'd consider it incentive to get some Sense Motive, not something to begrudge.  I also think it should be resisted by Resolve (resolve check to maintain composure, and not lose your cool) and possibly initaited with Bluff - I honestly don't get the Sense Motive vs Sense Motive reasoning, at all, and any insight would be appreciated.

It doesn't make immediate intuitive sense, no, but I'd roughly explain it in two ways:

In fluff terms:
Aggressive use:You're trying to press someone else's berserk button.  Trying to find something that you can say that will be sufficiently antagonistic to make the "red mist descend" and for them to forget all reasonable responses and just want to swing at you.  You have to judge them and what that might be.  The right insult will drive them into a fury; the wrong one will simply make them laugh.  For instance, in the real world: for one man, the berserk button may be "Nazi"; for another man it might be a very different N word; whereas many more might not be bothered enough by either to do anything stupid.

Defensive use:And the recipient, in turn, if they successfully realise that you're just trying to get their goat, has a much greater chance of ignoring the insult.  You could make it "the higher of sense motive or resolve", since discipline would also give someone a good chance of resisting.  But someone who knows people inside out is also a hard person to fool into making a rash decision in anger, so it does make sense defensively as well.

In crunch terms:
A skill with only passive use is boring.  Giving Sense Motive this active use makes it fun, and Bluff meanwhile remains fun (and very useful) as well for different reasons.  The defensive use, as Sense Motive already has a very useful defensive role, is a little less important, but there's still room for it.  And as for the idea of making it "the higher of Sense Motive or Resolve"... this makes Taunting a much less attractive option, mechanically, since so many fewer opponents would have an Achilles heel there.  And giving anything additional to Resolve anyway is unnecessary, since it does lots of useful things already.  So, overall, the current ruling is just fine by me.

[ludomastro]

Yes, I use it on my players.  Fortunately, they don't whine about it.  They have used it on NPC's as well.  If everyone has the same options then you're golden.

EDIT: Very nice explanation paddyfool.

[Krensky]

Do you find yourself using this option much?

When it makes sense. Usually it's less tactically sound then smacking the PCs around (since, you know, they're already attacking the poor NPC) but it's useful as  way of slowing the NPCs damage output down and cranking the PCs involvement in the combat up. Often I don't even really need to roll the Taunt since the PCs respond appropriately to it out of purely role play motivations.

If yes, how well are your players taking it when their actions are constrained this way?

Luckily, I don't have any whinerbabies at my tables. In fact, I get more sniveling in my PbP game here then my face to face game, probably do the higher number of GMs. (I kid, I kid. You guys are fine. )

Now, I admit part of this may be because I have a liberal interpretation of 'attack' in regards to Taunt. I pretty much allow any aggressive action that targets the Taunter directly (ie Fireball I at the taunter is OK, but on at the square 15 feet to his left to catch more NPCs or avoid a PC isn't). Threaten is a popular action choice in response too. Now, I also interpret the text that if your opponent can't try to do something aggressive against you on his next round, he gets the +1 as though you failed the check. So Taunting the NPC on the other side of the battlefield who can't reach range to do something against you isn't always a good idea.

Do you see players using it much? (or is trade off of spending an action to redirect attacks not viewed as supperior to just attacking yourself?)

Depends on the circumstances. Usually it gets used to take the heat off someone who's hurting or when the NPC is focusing on a squishier PC. It's done to protect APs and PLs too. Of course, I also tend to allow Story Critical on them so the players feel good getting attached and using them in a fight.

[Psion]

I rarely use as GM.

Its use among PCs is relatively uncommon, though I have seen it used very effectively.  The most memorable example was during an adventure in which the players unleashed an angry spirit creature in the form of a giant flaming stag. The spirit's first priority was to kill the fey singers that bound it in its physical form.

The owl nation keeper taunted it into thinking he was one of the binders. The spirit almost stomped him into paste, but it gave the bruisers in the party a chance to deal with the beast.

[Sletchman]

Interesting take, paddyfool.  I figured the exact same reasoning mechanically as you did, I was more curious about fluff take - and yours is very interesting.

Since it's the topic du jour in this thread, how would people who use taunt / have it used against them feel about a taunt attack trick?  Something like (example only):

Bitchslap (Taunt Trick):  Make an attack roll, opposed by your opponents sense motive.  If you exceed both their defence and sense motive check, they count as taunted.

Obviously the language is shoddy, just curious how do people feel about the intent?  I'm looking to model the effect you get when sparing and someone throws a sneaky shot in to enrage the other person (or in combat - a handpoke, or casual scratch instead of killing blow).  There also isn't any Taunt tricks, aside from Your Father Smelled of Elderberries, and even its only change is Edge generation.

Sorry for the minor hijack, Morg.

[Gentry]

Taunt coupled with the Burglar's He Did It! ability is just about perfect for pixies and other such nuisance creatures that can't otherwise do much harm to the PCs. If you can't hit 'em, get 'em to hit each other!

[paddyfool]

I like the trick.

I've also been mulling over a feat idea:

Cool head
When all about you are losing their's...
You may substitute your Resolve (Wis) skill for your Sense Motive Skill when defending against a Taunt attempt a number of times per scene equal to your starting Action Die.  Also, 1/Adventure you may reroll a failed Resolve check.

(The second benefit is a bit bland, and overall, it may pump Resolve a bit too much.  Is the first benefit reasonable, and are there any better ideas for the second benefit?)

[Morgenstern]

Replace the second half with Stress Resistance 2 .

A complete skill swap is on the order of a full feat. A single check swap is pretty modest, and in this case quite flavorful.

[paddyfool]

Good call, sir.  The fixed version:

Cool head
When all about you are losing their's...
You may substitute your Resolve (Wis) skill for your Sense Motive Skill when defending against a Taunt attempt a number of times per scene equal to your starting Action Dice.  Also, you gain Stress Resistance 2.