Dungeon Crawl Vs. Scenes?

[theboeh]

Hello, I'm fairly new to Fantasy Craft. I've only ran one super short adventure so far. I had a lot of fun and  I like what I've read. But... I have a question:

How would Fantasy Craft's concept of scenes mesh with a dungeon crawl?

I have an awesome idea for an extended dungeon crawl campaign and I would like to use Fantasy Craft but I'm stuck in this one area. When planning out a dungeon crawl style adventure would each room be a scene? I mean, is there a one-to-one connection between encounters and scenes? Or, is it more possible for a scene to have multiple encounters?

If scenes do have multiple encounters what, if any, effect does that have on the Threat/Menace levels?

Thanks in advance for your help!

[Coyote0273]

There's no set hard or fast rules for things like Scenes or Adventures as far as time length goes. That's really fully up to the GM. My personal suggestion on that is you play it at the speed of plot. If a series of dungeon battles group together, that's a scene. If something big is coming, and you need your players rested and buffed, that's new scene time, etc.

[Gentry]

Or as they hit specific things in the crawl, you can trigger a scene break. Opening the door to Level 2, discovering the key to the master treasure room, deciphering the ancient map to find the secret door into the extra level, Defeating the guards in the lost temple, etc. When they accomplish something important to the overall plot, consider opening a new scene.

[Crafty_Pat]

'Tis true, scene breaks in dungeons (or anywhere else, for that matter) can happen at the rate of plot.

They can also be location(s)-based - say, as you move from one part of the dungeon to another - or they can be broken up by time (1 scene an hour, with a scene break during sleep, for example).

It's really up to the GM and how he or she wants to pace the adventure.

[the331st]

This was my biggest  moment when I first read FC and I have to say it has been a beast trying to get over it. Thinking of ways I can make scenes work for me in situations that don't really fit my idea of a TV show is hard and not something I'm used to still.

@theboeh: I feel you pain 

[Sletchman]

In the one instance I've had a dungeon I had 5 levels and made each level a scene.

[Krensky]

Also, the more of the dungeon that makes up a single scene, the more old school resource management you get.

If every room is a scene, things can be very fast and the PCs will largely be at full strength for each one. If the whole dungeon is a scene, they'll tend to go slower and hopefully worry more about ehat's behind every door and around every corner.

[Morgenstern]

For my on purposes I've always envisioned a "full wing" to be 1 scene when dungeon-crawling. That could include about 3-4 stiff fights agains special characters, but ussually a clear thread or plot climax wraps up the scene.

Most World of Warcraft dungeoens are organized about the same as I'd do it with most "dungeons" being one scene, but a few large fortresses or major complexes being 3-4 scenes (wings) to cover every segment. I'd break up structures like that by goals. If goal A) is ransack the alchemy library, B) is free the prisoners form the nearby town, and C) confront the lord of the newly ensconced vampiric horde, then each of those could fill a scene, with lots of rooms, and smaller challenges filling in the scene.

[Crafty_Pat]

This was my biggest  moment when I first read FC and I have to say it has been a beast trying to get over it. Thinking of ways I can make scenes work for me in situations that don't really fit my idea of a TV show is hard and not something I'm used to still.

@theboeh: I feel you pain 

I wonder... Would you still have the same issue if the term were different? Not "scene" but... I dunno... "Stage" or something?

[spinningdice]

For a more traditional D&Dish style you could always have player dictated scene length and let them end the scene whenever the manage to hole up somewhere to rest? It even makes more sense in FC, as rather than the traditional 8 hour rest of D&D you can have them say. "Right the room's secure, lets take a half hour to get our bearings and focus, then head out."

[Golden Dragon]

And don't let Gentry be so modest. He's written a dungeon crawl for Crafty Games, and it is a 5 room, 5 scene dungeon. And I ran his adventure for GenCon, and he used the scene structure to add to the sense of impending doom. I think every time he writes an adventure, he's looking for a new way to mangle use the scene structure.

[the331st]

This was my biggest  moment when I first read FC and I have to say it has been a beast trying to get over it. Thinking of ways I can make scenes work for me in situations that don't really fit my idea of a TV show is hard and not something I'm used to still.

@theboeh: I feel you pain 

I wonder... Would you still have the same issue if the term were different? Not "scene" but... I dunno... "Stage" or something?

Stage as is in what sense? I hear stage and I start having WoW boss fight flash backs and my teeth start to do that grinding thing they do when I get stressed 

...ANYWAY... I think I understand what you mean tho, scene starts to take on the same parts once I start to think of it in the same way. Contained areas filled with scenery, props, and characters. It moves along and changes to a new one once certain criteria are met or some other trigger.

I think largely tho its a matter of not seeing enough big dungeons handled with scenes. That, and it's a big departure from other d20 games which are not based off of a storyteller system (FC/SC/MC are like a more appealing WOD  )

[theboeh]

I wonder... Would you still have the same issue if the term were different? Not "scene" but... I dunno... "Stage" or something?

You bring up a good point. I'm not sure that I would have the issue if it was a different word. But, at the same time I think 'scene' works very good for the pacing of most types of adventures. It's only in adventures that don't have a theatrical pace that it becomes a stumbling block (for me).

[LHG]

I have the same problem with scenes (and renaming it wouldn't help me) because I am running a campaign where the PCs completely control the pacing.  There is no plot or pacing for them except what they add (the campaign is taking place on its own timeline and multiple NPCs are acting at the same time they are; the plot advances no matter what they do and they get to choose where they make their impact).  I've had to create a kind of average scene length, which for now is one day, to determine when I end a scene. 

The most important thing I've learned is that the players need to know approximately how long a scene will be, or at least know that one scene won't be a single room and another will be an entire dungeon.  Otherwise, they cannot use their abilities without worrying they won't have them for a later fight, which, if the scene is much shorter than they expected, means they never use their best abilities.

[Clinius]

I don't think that you need to be prescriptive. When I plan a dungeon crawl style adventure, i'll plan the scenes by location, usually defined by some feature on the map, ie a wing of a dungeon, a level or so on. When I run the advenure, i'll stick to that until the players decide that they are going to rest up in which case the scene ends. I'll then play it by ear depending on how much of the level they still have to explore. If it's only a few rooms, I won't end the scene and roll it into the next level if you get my drift.

Just takes a bit of flexibility and thinking on the hoof but it works out well and gives the players a degree of control.