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Author Topic: 'Readying' items, Mage's Pouches, and Hidden Spells. Also Armor sizes.  (Read 1664 times)
Kerebrus
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« Reply #15 on: September 09, 2011, 10:38:12 AM »

on the notion of Draconic heritage or Drake craft weaponry.

do you still need both hands?  being consider to always have something should still mean you need the right appendages to use it, right?
if we had some character option that said that you are always considered to have Thieves Tools, I doubt anyone would be trying to pick a lock while wielding their Shield and Sword.

Just a thought.  And it matters, my Draconic Heritage caster has taken to carrying a shod staff.  But if I need to be hands free, I will have to consider stdying martial arts.
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Morgenstern
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« Reply #16 on: September 09, 2011, 11:02:57 AM »

Well, dropping a weapon's a free action, so you can go from beat down to castin' in just that quick - it's getting back to beat down that might cost an action. Quick Draw remains one of the most powerful feats in the game because nothing beats having more time...
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ArawnNox
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« Reply #17 on: September 09, 2011, 02:21:06 PM »

I tend to hand wave a lot of this.
I figure, so long as you HAVE your spell pouch, that's all that matters.
But then, I try to avoid getting bogged down in the minu.. minutae... the little stuff, to keep action flowing.
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The_Grand_User
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« Reply #18 on: September 09, 2011, 03:02:50 PM »

I view the Draconic Heritage's mage pouch as being always available, even when you're hands are full. Otherwise, it's just a few 20s or so, which can't be stolen from you; useful when you're captured or pickpocketed, but that should be such a rare event that I don't think it'd be worth part of a feat, particularly since it's already very circumstantial/class specific part of an otherwise general feat.
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« Reply #19 on: September 09, 2011, 05:30:09 PM »

I'm avoiding the Draconic Heritage Feat because it doesn't fit the concept of the character as the son of a noble family of lords and knights who is himself a knight by profession but a mage in ability.  Imagine something like Ramza from Final Fantasy Tactics if you made him a Wizard.

That's why he wears armor, uses a sword, etc, instead of the more traditional mage robe or staff.  He has the Vanguard Specialty, and the plan is to take a one level dip in Captain for Right Hand Man (which synergizes with Vanguard's two virtual Basic Combat Feats nicely) to give him a squire, and, once he has the moneys, acquire real armor, a long sword, either a military pistol or rifle (possibly both, reload issues being what they are) and a war horse.

Right now, I'm working off the idea that the conceptual Mage's Pouch is an arcane reference tome of general information, formulas, etc (like a college text book, if 'Sorcery' was an available degree), which works with the concept better than the more traditional 'bag o' eyeballs'.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2011, 05:34:07 PM by Pooka » Logged
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« Reply #20 on: September 09, 2011, 05:39:17 PM »

I'm avoiding the Draconic Heritage Feat because it doesn't fit the concept of the character as the son of a noble family of lords and knights who is himself a knight by profession but a mage in ability.  Imagine something like Ramza from Final Fantasy Tactics if you made him a Wizard.

That's why he wears armor, uses a sword, etc, instead of the more traditional mage robe or staff.  He has the Vanguard Specialty, and the plan is to take a one level dip in Captain for Right Hand Man (which synergizes with Vanguard's two virtual Basic Combat Feats nicely) to give him a squire, and, once he has the moneys, acquire real armor, a long sword, either a military pistol or rifle (possibly both, reload issues being what they are) and a war horse.

Right now, I'm working off the idea that the conceptual Mage's Pouch is an arcane reference tome of general information, formulas, etc (like a college text book, if 'Sorcery' was an available degree), which works with the concept better than the more traditional 'bag o' eyeballs'.

Then you want a Drake-crafted shield or sword.
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« Reply #21 on: September 09, 2011, 05:49:50 PM »

Then you want a Drake-crafted shield or sword.

You know, I was about to say the shield wouldn't work, but shields do count as weapons, don't they?  That's clever.  I thought about a Drake-crafted sword, but a shield would be even better.

Question; if the shield is Drake-crafted and counts as a Mage Pouch, does it still require two hands to use it as a Mage Pouch?  Also, how occupied is a hand with a readied shield?  I know you couldn't use a weapon with it, for example, but the arm straps on some shields would allow some use of the shield hand.  Or would using the hand like that count as un-readying the shield?
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« Reply #22 on: September 09, 2011, 06:27:18 PM »

Then you want a Drake-crafted shield or sword.

You know, I was about to say the shield wouldn't work, but shields do count as weapons, don't they?  That's clever.  I thought about a Drake-crafted sword, but a shield would be even better.

Question; if the shield is Drake-crafted and counts as a Mage Pouch, does it still require two hands to use it as a Mage Pouch?  Also, how occupied is a hand with a readied shield?  I know you couldn't use a weapon with it, for example, but the arm straps on some shields would allow some use of the shield hand.  Or would using the hand like that count as un-readying the shield?

Read the effect.

May be used as a Mage's Pouch. It's still a 1h item. So as long as you're holding the shield (or sword, or club, or whatever) you have a Mage's Pouch ready.
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« Reply #23 on: September 10, 2011, 04:03:17 AM »

*chuckle* Which is why the quality should cost about 4 times what it does, 8-10 times when applied to a one-handed weapon Roll Eyes.
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« Reply #24 on: September 10, 2011, 07:31:55 AM »

Or skip needing to rebalance the cost and say both hands have to be occupied touching it to use it.  You don't have to drop stuff, you just can't use anything in your hands when touching the item.
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Fortinbras
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« Reply #25 on: September 10, 2011, 10:34:52 AM »

Or skip needing to rebalance the cost and say both hands have to be occupied touching it to use it.  You don't have to drop stuff, you just can't use anything in your hands when touching the item.

That doesn't seem like much of a restriction. It's not as if you can do anything else with your hands while you're casting a spell.
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« Reply #26 on: September 10, 2011, 10:52:33 AM »

*chuckle* Which is why the quality should cost about 4 times what it does, 8-10 times when applied to a one-handed weapon Roll Eyes.

Well... in the Drakes' defense. Forging fine weapons without having dexterous hands, or being a 'tool-using' race to begin with, does put a bit of a premium on their handiwork.   Tongue
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Antilles
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« Reply #27 on: September 10, 2011, 11:07:39 AM »

It's not so much that you can get a mage's pouch down to a 1 handed item, it's that it allows you to avoid the action cost of readying weapons or whatever else you want to use  instead of a mage's pouch. Dropping whatever's in your hands, a free action; readying the mage's pouch, one half action; dropping your mage's pouch, a free action; readying whatever you had in your hands or otherwise want to hold, 1-2 half action(s). So basically, the Drake customization gives you a free round, if not more, every time you've cast a spell and then want to ready something else.

As Morgenstern said earlier, actions are the most valuable resource you've got in a combat, and the Drake upgrade is like getting an unlimited use Surge of Speed feat that's only restricted to a couple of items. That's pretty damn good, if you ask me.
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SilvercatMoonpaw
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« Reply #28 on: September 10, 2011, 11:27:00 AM »

That doesn't seem like much of a restriction. It's not as if you can do anything else with your hands while you're casting a spell.
I was going by "you'd have to drop what's in your other hand" method, but Antilles has a point.

Maybe it should be stated you have to do something special with the Drake-crafted item before using it, equivalent to readying a mage's pouch.  So for example you have to point your sword toward the ground.  Just something you could reasonably say takes up some actions.
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paddyfool
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« Reply #29 on: September 10, 2011, 08:48:50 PM »

Or skip needing to rebalance the cost and say both hands have to be occupied touching it to use it.  You don't have to drop stuff, you just can't use anything in your hands when touching the item.

That doesn't seem like much of a restriction. It's not as if you can do anything else with your hands while you're casting a spell.

It would make something of a difference - stopping someone with a drake-crafted weapon also having another weapon, or other one-handed item, readied (e.g. someone casting with a drake-crafted shield could not also have a longsword readied).  It still wouldn't stop someone with Knife Basics and a drakecrafted dagger effectively always having a mage's pouch equipped, or affect someone who was using a two-handed weapon anyway.  Tricky to justify fluff-wise, too.  But on the whole, it makes the opportunity cost of drakecraft count for a little more.
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