Character Builds

[acseric]

Hi All,

I am attempting to introduce some experienced D20 3.5 type players to Fantasy Craft, and I was wondering if there was some type of repository of character builds that I could direct them to? 

I really want to demonstrate the wide range of awesome character options there are, along with giving them some direction on how cohesive and powerful characters can be built.

Thanks in Advance!

Eric

[Antilles]

Well, I suppose you could go through the PbP forum and use the characters made there as examples. I don't think there's a dedicated character build repository anywhere, though.

[Kerebrus]

not that I know of.  But it could be done in pretty short order.

what sort of "example" level are we looking for?  Level 1 would be easiest.

the other quicky would be randomize races (talents), Specialties, and Classes - shake them up and Voila!
Svelte Human Fencer Priest
Elf Guardian Sage
Giant Shield Bearer Scout
Orc Swindler Martial Artist
Ogre Criminal Courtier (WTF?!)

or you could take each class and use races and Specialties to simply take them in two different directions.
Sneaky Git - Goblin Rogue Scout
Shooter - Saurian Archer Scout

Skirmisher - Savage Human Barbarian Soldier (Charge Basics & mobility Basics)
Armored Hammer - Orc Fighter Soldier (Sword basics & Shield Basics)

[SilvercatMoonpaw]

Ogre Criminal Courtier (WTF?!)

Crime Boss. You gonna refuse his offer?

[Sheena-Tiger]

i would add to the samples of kerebrus something we had

one of us took a human - ranger - scout, going down ranged path with bows and into deadeye
i took the beastmaster-approach, using a savage - barbarian human with hardly any fighting-feats

2 times the same base class and same race, but different choices with speciality (and for humans talents) ending in different playstyles - and not just weapon/armor of choice

[agent oni]

Actually there are the ones from the Reality Blur's contest....

[acseric]

First off, thanks all.

What I think would be most helpful would be a few example characters, showing several different builds from the base at like 10th level or something.  It would be cool to show how even a character that starts off in a certain way could be taken in very different directions.  

ie:  (Note, I am not even including backrounds and feats and stuff - I know this will change things even more)

1st level Elven Assasin    --->  6th Assasin, 4th Mist Dancer  
                                        |
                                        ---> 1st Assasin, 8th Courtier, 1st Edgemaster
                                        |
                                        ---> 3rd Assasin, 2nd Mage, 5th Alchemist

1st level Dwarven Priest ---> 7th Priest, 3rd Paladin
                                       |
                                       --->  3rd Priest, 7th Sage
                                       |
                                       ---> 1st Priest, 6th Scout, 3rd Force of Nature
                  
                      

SThanks,

Eric

[Kerebrus]

don't have my books on hand today... I would so dig this.

[Bhurano]

Ohhh shiny, I post some or all of the mentioned builds you would like to see. Just need some time...

[ludomastro]

@ acseric

With respect, I wouldn't build anything like what you are showing.  Multi-classing, while allowed in Fantasy Craft, doesn't net you the benefits that it does in D&D.  In fact it can hurt you.

The gamebreaker ability comes into play at class level 14 (not character level) so the more you dilute your classes, the more you lag behind others.  This is not a problem with Expert and Master classes as they are set up to allow you to get a gamebreaker by 14th character level (assuming you follow a single class until you enter one of them).

Please have your folks follow the great green one's advice and "unlearn what [they] have learned."  OK, semi-rant finished.

Here is an example of a martial oriented mage:

(click to show/hide)

Grizzled (Human) Fighter Mage

Grizzled gives him some nice bonuses to combat related things as well as life in general.
Fighter grants some depth to open with and provides weapon proficiencies (or combat tricks) that the mage can use.
Mage - well, he's a magic user, not much else to say.

Lets' assume we are working with a flat 13 array on stats.  Suitably heroic and above average.  Thus,

STR - 13 +1 (Fighter) = 14 (+2)
CON - 13 + 2 (Grizzled) = 15 (+2)
DEX - 13 - 2 (Grizzled) = 11 (+0)
INT - 13
WIS - 13
CHA - 13

He's not the quickest guy in the world but he'll do.

Now, for level 1.

He's got 6 proficiencies - 2 from Mage and 4 from Fighter.
We'll take:
Bow Forte (2) for when the enemy is over there
Edged Forte (2) for when the enemy is right here
Cheap Shot Trick (1)
Mix-up Trick: Trip (1)

So, let's see, what else.  Ah, skills:
For origin skills, let's go with Acrobatics (to use our Trip trick) and Tactics (because he's military).

We get 4 x 8 = 32 skill ranks

Max ranks to Spellcasting (4) and Resolve (4) and flavor as you see fit to the others.

Feats:
Armor Basics - from Fighter - Remember, mages can wear armor and still use spells from the outset.  While applying the ACP to spellcasting is a popular houserule it is not required by the RAW.

Hidden Spells - bonus feat for a level 1 character - Doesn't make him an obvious target on the battlefield.  Would probably negate the ACP to Spellcasting rule for most GM's

Let's give him Reinforced (Edged Resistance 2) Padded (Cold Resistance 3) armor (partial coverage - torso) - 20 silver
Let's give him a mage's pouch / spellcasting kit - 20 silver
Now, is his primary weapon a sword or the bow?
Sword: give him a ninja-to/sword cane - 40 silver (1d8 lethal, AP 2, 20)
Bow: Short bow with 30 standard arrows - 50 silver (1d6 lethal, AP 2, 19-20, 20ft x 6 range)

This leaves him with 10 to 20 silver for sundries.

Pick suitably explosive spells from level 0.

I'd suggest Expeditious Retreat (you don't have to run away), Polar Ray I, Flare & Water Walk as starters.

 AND, he's ready for play at level 1.

If you want to veer toward Rune Knight - which I recommend - he'll need to grab the Favored Gear feat along the way.

EDIT: Corrected skills.

If that is the type of example you want, let me know.  I'll see if I can work up a few more levels but no promises today as I have to deal with home repairs.  (I think wives have the class ability "Honey, Do ...")

[acseric]

Excellent.

This is just the kind of advice that I am looking for.

Since Fantasy Craft is new to me, I am very curious about how characters are generally built.  I have played many different game systems, but FC seems to be somewhat different about how character creation and advancement should be done efficiently.  I am very interested in the decision making process that goes into advancing to a certain level, then the reasons for changing classes - stuff like that.  

My players tend to be optimizers - they try to include awesome flavor and personality to their characters, but ultimately, they want a character that brings the awesome and kicks ass.  (not only in combat - they can just as easily kick ass socially or doing whatever else a game supports)

So, while I understand that the game breakers are important, I get the feeling that it isnt a single classed sprint to 14 either.  

I hope this helps better explain the information I am hoping to learn in this thread.

Thanks Again!

Eric

[Krensky]

No, but considering how powerful and cool  they are, if your game will be going to level 14, you want to make sure your 14th career level is either your fourteenth level in a base class, the tenth level in a expert class, or the fifth level in a master class.

[Kerebrus]

other things to point out.

there isn't an option for buying 'cross-class' skills - that is what origin skills are for - and the occasional multiclass excursion.  Core abilities and proficiencies are the key elements from a character's first class.

Some fully fleshed out concepts are best addressed with a spread of classes.  Case in point, a member of my current party has ambitions towards being a heavily connected crime boss.  Started out as a Sage, for the sexy skill package and the action dice ability to make his future minions more successful.  Then Burglar, someone has to have the skills to teach budding young thieves.  Next up are going to be Emissary and Courtier for the abilities to get contacts and favors for cheaper.

@ludomastro - one oops there, for trip you want origin skill Acrobatics.

[ludomastro]

In my experience, optimizers looking to have a good time tend to be overwhelmed at first given the sheer volume of options.  Once they absorb it a bit, they sink their teeth into the system and have a great time.

Power-gamers (sometime pretending to be "optimizers") get mad because they can't break the game.  Yes, it's that well balanced.

So, while I understand that the game breakers are important, I get the feeling that it isnt a single classed sprint to 14 either.

True, but it could be and you really wouldn't feel constrained.  Given the breadth of tricks, feats and other character options, you won't really lag behind on the style side of things either.

Take the Followers Feat.  Does it represent hero worship?  Master/student interaction?  Clergy/laity?  Childhood friends?  You and the GM get to flavor the relationship as needed which opens it up quite a bit.

Let's assume two Soldiers take Followers: one has groupies while the other has opened a dojo for training the city guard.  Different feel, same mechanics, awesome benefit and bends to the style requirements of the player.

In the end, my opinion is just that, an opinion.  I know that you and your friends will love this system once they break through old d20 paradigms.  You'll have a blast and will find new ways to make things stylish and fun.

Oh, and welcome to the boards.  

@ Kerebrus
   Yes, yes I did.  I'll go edit now.

[ArawnNox]

I'll echo ludomastro: "Unlearn..."
If you come into FC thinking like you do for DnD, you'll get tripped up. FC is the most robust d20 system I've ever seen and it's now my go-to game for everything d20.

Now, on the subject of character builds.
A small shift in thinking is required. You see, your class is more along the lines of "How You Solve Problems". Soldiers hit it with a stick, Keepers apply specialized skills, Mages use magic tricks, etc. Specialty is what will form the core of your character and sum up "Who you are" in one to two words. Want to be a pirate? Use Corsair as your Specialty. Want to be a battle-field medic? Select the Cleric Specialty.

As you gain levels, you can very much pick as you go, or have things planned out. My Character in the Burnt Offerings PbP, for example, is going to go into Swashbuckler at level 5 and let that build up the Fencing Feat tree and pick up choice Style Feats while I use my level feats to round out the concept and add the Sword Circle tree.

As I said in another thread, its very hard to poorly build a character. The only way you can really "gimp" yourself is if you, say, pick a spell caster then don't put any ranks in Spellcasting.

Also, it's worth mentioning, unlike DnD, your PCs will be very formidable at level 1. PCs are going to feel a bit front-loaded with abilities and they can overwhelm, so spend some time with the players, familiarizing yourselves with what you can do. Combat is much more than "I hit it". Check out that list of abilities on the character sheet. Trip, threaten, disarm. These are all easy and perfectly viable strategies, many of which give the non-combatants something to do when combat breaks out.

Now that I'm done rambling, welcome to the forums and don't hesitate to ask questions.