Specialists and spells

[Sheena-Tiger]

As we begin to get behind the specialists, one question occured once and it still tickles my curiosity... even more as i see that i will run out of spells available (if i not dip into other spellcaster classes or get prizes and so on)

The Level 1 Class-abilities of the availabl 2 Specialist-Classes state, that the character gains active access to his level 0 and 1 spells and all level 0 spells of other disciplines.

If he now uses his abilities to get higher spell-levels, it is clear he unlocks active access to his higher levels, but what happens to those other spells?
i can think of 2 different scenarios for this:

• the specialist levels access to both though will always be a bit limited with non-special-spells (1 level below his disciplines)
• the specialist levels only his disciplines and never has access to other disciplines (not counting level 0) --- which can be ignored with taking 1 level mage right now

Without the Level 0 Spells of other disciplines, right now, a level 8 Conjurer with only 12 wisdom seems to be 1 spell short of having all Conjurer-Spells available (if he raises his spellcasting each time) and with maybe Level 12 all Level 0 Spells too

[Deral]

the specialist levels access to both though will always be a bit limited with non-special-spells (1 level below his disciplines)

I'm pretty sure this is the right answer, though the specialist can't pick up any spells outside his discipline. However, if he learns them through some other means, he can cast them, with 1 level lower access.

Without the Level 0 Spells of other disciplines, right now, a level 8 Conjurer with only 12 wisdom seems to be 1 spell short of having all Conjurer-Spells available (if he raises his spellcasting each time) and with maybe Level 12 all Level 0 Spells too

However, you're seeing this problem because Conjuror, at the moment, is just a preview- with spellbound Conjuror will have 111 spells to choose from (as will each specialist, assuming nothing has changed), so since that 12 Wisdom conjuror will be looking at something like 45 spells to choose over his career, that should leave him with plenty of room for variety.

[Coyote0273]

The spells in the main book are extremely limited in some schools, which is why you'll run out of spells. At almost 900 spells in Spellbound, that averages out to more than 100 spells per specialist, you shouldn't have that same problem then.

[Sletchman]

Unless you have a somewhat min-max build you'll be unlikely to max out the stuff in spellbound - for example, a 20th level Elf Wizard specialist with high Wisdom (20) will have:

20 - Wisdom
23 - Ranks
40 - Circle of X
12 - Spell Library (Lifestyle 9 from class* + 2 from Wizard + 1 Charisma)

= 95 Spells Known.  (Out of 111, unless something has changed since the last official mention of 888 spells over 8 schools, evenly split.)

Pretty close to filling out their school, makes me wonder if with some thought I can make out the list without affecting my abilities in other areas too much.


_{* Conjurer and Mage have 9, the Reaper and likely others will have slightly less.}

[Sheena-Tiger]

Well, this is all quite clear to me, that the Specialists will have access to that many spells... still i wonder about the Spell-Levels and raising them.
After all, even a Specialist might say to himself 'i want this spell' - if he has the option without sacrifising levels to other classes.

In the end, nobody tells me which spells i have to take and when i have to learn them. Even more this could be interesting if you only have 1 specialist and no one else who can support with magic (not counting prizes or favors) and the group feels they just need this or that special spell which is not within the disciplines of the only caster.

[Bill Whitmore]

For the short term, the easiest way to over the lack of access to a given spell is through scrolls.

"Only a character with the Spellcasting skill may use a scroll and the process is similar to casting a spell, though no spell points are spent. The caster doesn’t have to know the spell, nor must he be able to normally cast spells of its level." (emphasis mine)

My players have started carrying around some scrolls for utilitarian spells they wanted to have access to without having to spend spell slots on them.  These spells are really useful when they need them, like Knock, but they don't need them often enough to devote a spell slot towards it.

For the long term, requiring a prize is not out of order.  There are magic items which give permanent, reusable access to spells.

If a player wants access to every spell in the game, perhaps playing a specialist isn't the ideal class for that player to choose.  Complete spell accessibility is the purview of the Mage.

Having said that, the motto "Your Dungeon, Your Dragon, Your Way" should say it all.  If it is appropriate for the setting and cleared with the GM, you can add anything you want to to anything.

[Sheena-Tiger]

Hmmm... okay i guess i try to give scrolls a bit more of a thought, though considering our style o play... marking things like 'end of adventure' can be a bit tricky

On the other hand, our dear GM is rolling the idea to drop the 'Mage'-class, so only specialists would exist. That idea routes in the setting were mages are part of a guild/academy/house/... however you want to name them... and learns from them (and thus this class). All o it will get some new thoughts after having the spellbound-demo, as the old system no longer applies that well.

[Bill Whitmore]

Hmmm... okay i guess i try to give scrolls a bit more of a thought, though considering our style o play... marking things like 'end of adventure' can be a bit tricky

Just an FYI on a couple of things:
    Scrolls, unlike potions and some foods, are not lost at the end of the adventure.  The only time you'll need to worry about "end of adventure" things is if the spell itself requires it after it is cast, but that is no different than any other spell, rather cast from a scroll or from a characters known spells.

    If you don't have set adventures, but rather just strings of unbroken scenes, I'd recommend reading through ADVENTURE PLAY VS. UNBROKEN PLAY on page 356 of the second printing.  They give you some guidelines for converting "per adventure" abilities into other terms.

[Sheena-Tiger]

good points, i'll look it up once i am back home from work
i have the books with me on HDD but no time to do full-scaled reading and understanding while the phone tends to ring at the worst times ^^

[Crafty_Pat]

In the end, nobody tells me which spells i have to take and when i have to learn them.

Not necessarily true. I can easily see settings in which spells are predetermined, similar to what happens with Paths, or in another configuration. Don't assume anything until you speak with your GM.

That said, let's assume you're right for the sake of this conversation. Carry on.

[Bhurano]

@Crafty_Pat

Hi there,

I am the current GM in our group. For now I have seen the Chaneller (per conversion) and the Conjurer in action. I gave a buddy one of my Chaneller builds because he was'nt satisfied that his captain and courtier didn't worked how he intended. So I tailored a Chaneller for him and since then his gaming cranked up to 11. He is far more satisfied that he can now stand his own in a fight, which he couldn't with his captain. For now I build up a Reaper and several Seers just to tinker around and get a hang on it. If Spellbound can live up to the short preview - and I have no doubt - then I think about to drop the Mage, in favor of the Specialist classes - which I find more entertaining and who give a clearer to draw concept for my group. The big deal my group likes about the specialists, they have Level 1 spells from the get-go. And they get more spells... which is just a unleashed can of whoop-ass.

The guy who started the thread isn't normally the one who plays a mage... ok, he tried several times in other RPG's but those where mostly filed under "epic fail" - with the exceptions of those characters who had only a sliver or some particular talent. But in FC he comes up with a Conjurer and plays it balls-to-the-walls.

On another note your thought about predetermined spells might be nice. In the current setting that we play in this might an entirely workable angle. As an example the houses of high magic might impose a certain basic knowledge for each and any given education. So a pyromancer might end up with tried and true spells to fall back on since his kind is using them since the founding of their order. Not very exotic spells, but more or less easy to use spells which help the survival/agenda of a mage. Same might be true for any other of the magic houses and their different branches of magical education. I need to think about... when Spellbound hits the shelves... and after a complete read-through.

Thanks, for the food of thoughts.

[Crafty_Pat]

Thanks for the insight about your game. Hope you continue to enjoy it.

We look forward to hearing what you think of Spellbound. when it hits.

Stay Crafty!

[Bhurano]

Yeah, we definitely enjoy FC. Thanks for all the hard work. And Kudos to you guys for the specialist casters.

When it hit I will chew throught in as soon as possible... bet on it.

Don't know if this is the right place... but I will ask anyway.

One of the more interesting things about your whole Mastercraft approach is that the products shall be compatible to a great extent in the end. If I remember right. Will there also be a Cyberpunk-themed one? Something in the vein of Shadowrun. That would be awesome.

[aegis]

I remember Pat saying they would definitely make one, eventually. Just not quite soon, since there are at least Spycraft 3 and 10,000 Bullets (and Looking Glass Wars!) first in line.

But yeah, I'm also expecting something cyberpunk someday, although more classic cyberpunk (GitS, Ex Machina, ...) than Shadowrun, of which I've never been fond (but hey, classic cyberpunk + Fantasy Craft and you have it! - another great thing about this line). 

[Bhurano]

@aegis

Am I blind or why haven't I seen Lookin Glas Wars at the homepage??? Spycraft and 10.000 Bullets are so bought when they come out... never played Spycraft 2.0, but I am intrigued about the mastercraft version. And when it is even compatible... even if some things have to be readjusted it's seems just like anything I want. Ok, granted as we began I had a hard time to wrap my head around certain things and even now there are still some things that I need to incorporate. But everytime I hear more about anything Crafty-related it just gets better and better. Silly me... I really thought Spellbound would be the icing on the cake... Silly me indeed.

That's exactly the reason why FC and damn possible everything Mastercraft-related is my to-go RPG.

Crunchy rules? Check. Can do what I want with it? Check. Cool classes? Check. Gives me more ideas than I can shake a stick at? Check. Customizable to any end - without rewriting the manual? Check. Can of whoop ass? Check. Big Damn Heroes in the box? Check. Hard to break for most powergamers? Check.

I could go on and on it's just that good.
Most of the other RPG's books that I own get more and more used how I can use this or that in FC.
No more gamebreaking experiences in WOD, no more power creep in D&D, no more you-suck-at-everything-you-do in The Dark Eye and finally no more this-fight-goes-24/7-real-time. I gonna take this train of epicness and I'm in for a long ride.

And anybody else who had a brush in FC for a bit of time seems to see it quite as me. It's just cool to know that when you are Soldier you end up like a demi-god of war, or as a literally shadow if you go all Sam Fisher. Want to be a manipulating bastard? Go Courtier and play a balls-to-the-walls Jaffar-like-look-alike manipulative bastard or be a suave crime lord with an agenda like Johnny Marcone - and to take the icing pick a minion. The whole you can pick damn near everything and bend it how you it want is just awesome. Will it be overly effective? Maybe not. But who cares? You can go on and rock nonetheless.

Sorry, I will now end my ranting. But nonethless guys Kudos to you that you stopped a guy dead in it's tracks who never liked magic that much and brought him to considering, planning, playing and actually enjoying a magic user to boot.