Elves and the Fey creature type

[Bhurano]

Hi there,

during my work in progress campaign conversion, there came up a rather interesting interaction.
Since any creature with the fey descriptor are at least physical immortal... how would a culture of such beings interact with more shortlived creatures... heck even dragons are mortal in FC and will in the end die... without some magical tricks up their claws.

Currently I use the angle that they have to adapt faster, than they normally would. In the background of my campaign world they already lost a war with the humans just because as the first humans landed on their continent, they couldn't adapt fast enough. Since that they have grown more and more decisive, since they had to adapt or die when they have the rather shortlived and agressive humans in their neighborhood. With even more agressive beings like the orcs around they had to be even more decisive. On the other hand the elves are not that numerous, which is quite a drawback and they are still sneaky, scheming bastards (at least the older ones) and don't ever mention fair knightly duel - they go for stabbity stab in your back. Not to mention that they would let anyone know if they go to war or not. As a species they tend to use every avenue to survive... if that means to use underhanded technique, they will go for it.

I like to think the whole they don't age angle through... in the same perspective dwarfs, drakes and rootwalkers receive a similar treatment, since they are also at least species that live quite a bit longer than humans and in the end suffer from similar problems as the elves, just not so distinctive.

How handle you a more or less immortal species in your campaign worlds? I don't have my books with me and therefore another question... are elves eligible to choose "Draconic Heritage"? If I remember correctly they couldn't take that much species feats... if any.

On a sidenote: Has anyone some experience with the conjurer? How do they play out? I ask because one of my players might use one, since the demise of his last character and I already advised him to take one level mage - for now - since the spells are rather limited right now for a conjurer. Anything else to keep an eye on?

Thanks for your opinions.

[SilvercatMoonpaw]

Well, scientifically-speaking (yeah, I normally don't like bringing science into fantasy, but this time it's not that intrusive) "immortal" creatures exist in the real world: negligible senescence.  That is, they don't degrade (much) with age.  But they still don't live forever, as even if predation or accident don't claim them they're going to get a disease.  Especially cancer.  So unless your elves can magically cure cancer (and if that's so you've got more problems than their living forever) they are going to die at some point.

Just thought I'd point that out in case maybe you could use a justification for not having them live forever.

As to your original question of what I do:
I just have them be normal people.

EDIT: To explain:
I don't like trying to portray anyone as not human.  They feel stiff and formal any other time.  So I don't make immortals behave that much differently from an ordinary human unless they are only going to have a bit part (one scene of "mysterious ancient person").

[Dawnblade]

I agree with silvercat.  In my opinion just because something ages slowly does not mean they have to age mentally slow as well.  Its your world and therefor you make them how you want them to be.  In your setting it seems there fluff is they really suffer that burden of ages and are extremely deceitful, which is fine but everyone has there own flavor of elf.  The ones I tend to interact with in my games is the tree living, bow loving, slightly magical, ripped straight out of lord of the rings elves. And that is mostly due too its what our player bases grew up with.

[MilitiaJim]

Cancer isn't entirely inevitable, sharks don't get it.

Friend of mine mentioned that in "his universe with the magics" that cancer is cured by death magic, not life magic.  I like that twist after thinking briefly.

Hmmm.  I was going to start just yammering on, but the ideas keep shifting.  Anyway, these elves are not immortal, they just don't die of old age?  Or do they not die of disease, merely of violence?  What of starvation?  (It matters.)

[Antilles]

If I were making a world, I'd nick the (Eberron concept I think) idea that old elves turn into good liches. After, say, 300 or 400 years an elf will feel the call to return to his homelands and join the resting elders, in enormous necropolis-looking structures, only instead of being dead they are in either a biological or magical form for stasis. Immortal, but for all intents and purposes they face a definite end to their normal lives.

[SilvercatMoonpaw]

Cancer isn't entirely inevitable, sharks don't get it.

They do.

[MilitiaJim]

Cancer isn't entirely inevitable, sharks don't get it.

They do.

Or they get it.  Better find a well skilled death priest to kill the cancer but not the rest of you.

[SilvercatMoonpaw]

Better find a well skilled death priest to kill the cancer but not the rest of you.

I suppose the question is whether the death magic has the same sort of drawbacks as the stuff we use on cancer treatments in the real world.

[MilitiaJim]

Better find a well skilled death priest to kill the cancer but not the rest of you.

I suppose the question is whether the death magic has the same sort of drawbacks as the stuff we use on cancer treatments in the real world.

I've not thought much of it:  No and yes.  It wouldn't flood your body with poison, so your hair wouldn't fall out.  But unless your guy is skilled the risk of a whole organ being killed instead of just the infested part is high.

[Coyote0273]

As written in Fantasy Craft, elves just don't grow old. At some point they'll stop aging physically. They still suffer from all the normal diseases and dangers that'll kill anyone else, they're no less or more inherent not to.

Unless it specifically states otherwise, like Fae Heritage (only non-fae), anyone can take any of the heritage/legacy feats like Draconic, Demonic, or Angelic.

As for cancer and magic... its magic, it has whatever effect the GM decides it has on you.

[Goodlun]

I think the fact that they stop aging physically would mean most of their immune systems don't keep on degrading with age.  So things like cancer probably not endemic in their population.  Sure their would be elves with it.  Also same thing with disease, probably not a lot of them dropping dead from  pneumonia, flu, heart issues and the what not that older humans tend to have to worry about, since being old hasn't ravaged their immune system already. 
The things I would suspect culturally from people that don't age would be:
Far more patient - they simply have the time, things like investing and planing for the future make a lot of sense. 
Conservative - they have been through good times and bad times many times so they should have learned to conserve when during the good times to prepare for the bad times.  Also along the same token even though change is inevitable that in the end "human" nature more or less remains the same and everything changes in a recognizable pattern like the seasons so if what they are doing now works and has worked for so long why change.
I would also imagine they would look at short lived races just as they are young impatient and reckless much like teenagers or children.

[Sletchman]

On a sidenote: Has anyone some experience with the conjurer? How do they play out? I ask because one of my players might use one, since the demise of his last character and I already advised him to take one level mage - for now - since the spells are rather limited right now for a conjurer. Anything else to keep an eye on?

Guy I know is playing one now, the only downside is lack of spells available.  Instead of a level of Mage I recommend getting a 20 Rep prize, that gives Class Ability: Subtle and Quick to Anger.  That way you can cast all the spells, and don't come out behind.  Available as a 2nd level starting character.

_{Yes it's quite cheesy, but I only recommend it to tide you over til you have all 111 (iirc) of your schools spells to pick from.}


On the Elves topic, as far as I'm concerned it's flavour text.  I have never played in a game (in 20 years of gaming) where the lack of aging has been an actual benefit (beyond extensive knowledge of history because you lived through it).  The closest was a decade of downtime.  But maybe everyone else's experiences differ?

For what it's worth, in an upcoming game my elves are going to be flavoured like Warhammer 40k's Eldar - they don't really age, but at a certain point they feel the pull to join the spirits of their ancestors in the wraithstone structure of their ship (in my game it will be an artifact at the centre of their homeland) and simply go there to cease existing (but can still be called on for guidance).  I also like how 40k had each of the Eldar rotating jobs to avoid them becoming bored (because lets face it, even your favourite thing would suck after 1000 years of doing it).

[paddyfool]

I had an idea for an Elf civilisation that worked like this:

Initial physical growth slightly slower than human, but mental development similarly timed (so that elven "children" are spookily smart).  Fertile window narrow (e.g. age 25-40*), and/or within narrow, widely spaced windows (e.g. once every few years), so that numbers of new elves are few (e.g. 1 to 5 per elvish woman).  Elvish adventurers, and the armed protectors of enclaves of said civilisation would almost all be 60+ (ie of an age to be grandparents, great-grandparents etc.), as up til then, any hazardous activity would be deeply taboo.

Could that work, do you think?

-------------------------------

*(Possibly with a twist that male elves would not be completely infertile after that interval, but rather that they would be likely to father warped children.)

[Agent 333]

In one setting I'm working on, all the races were created about the same time, but due to their immortality the elves evolved slower culturally... meaning that humans and the like are in to Feudal era tech and civilization, while most elves are hunter-gatherer tribes, a few (like the Owl Nation) have developed city-states. Imagine England c1450 vs Athens c450BCE. This may apply to actual gear too, I haven't decided yet (i.e. elves only make Ancient gear unless trained by a more advanced race).

On a slightly side topic, does anybody think there would be any balance issues by making Elves Fey/Folk dual typed?

[Sletchman]

In one setting I'm working on, all the races were created about the same time, but due to their immortality the elves evolved slower culturally... meaning that humans and the like are in to Feudal era tech and civilization, while most elves are hunter-gatherer tribes, a few (like the Owl Nation) have developed city-states. Imagine England c1450 vs Athens c450BCE. This may apply to actual gear too, I haven't decided yet (i.e. elves only make Ancient gear unless trained by a more advanced race).

I like this quite a lot, and am totally stealing it.  Makes perfect sense in so many ways.  Plus you can have crotchety elves grumbling about new fangled black powder nonsense, when in their days they made do with a bow an arrow.  Not to mention saddles, bloody soft humans needing sadles to ride a horse.

On a slightly side topic, does anybody think there would be any balance issues by making Elves Fey/Folk dual typed?

I think it will weaken them a little - they are targetted by 2 different Favoured Foes, as well as 2 types of turning, and other effects tha tare based on type (both advantageous and disadvantageous).  Not a huge thing in most campaigns, I wouldn't think.  You'd also have to decide if they age or not (both explicitly state contradictory things).