Less Deadly Crits

[Agent 333]

I've been brainstorming a way to make Critical Hits still matter without invalidating Vitality, and this is my latest plot, in the form of a campaign quality:

Limbs for Life
Whenever a Critical Hit is scored on a special character, the attack gains keen 20 instead of the normal result. (ie, instead of dealing wound damage for lethal, and instead of causing stun for subdual, etc).

Ok, the name needs help. I know this would theoretically make non-lethal damage more effective, but as I plan on running this concurrently with Resilient Heroes then that point is moot. What does everyone think of the idea?

[Bill Whitmore]

What about swapping the costs for doing wound damage as opposed to critical injuries.

On a threat it would cost 1 action die to convert it to a critical injury and it would cost 2 action dice to cause the damage directly to wounds.

Since critical injuries in and of themselves don't cause wound damage causing one isn't likely to immediately remove the character from the fight.  It WILL make the character a little weaker, causing them to instead suffer some setback; like bleeding, or battered limbs; without outright killing the target, which is similar to the Fatigue or Shaken conditions accrued from other damage types.

Utilizing the option which could outright kill the target is more expensive and is more risky if the target turns out to have the tough quality.

[Mister Andersen]

Crit = auto level of fatigued?

[ComicJam]

Crit = auto level of fatigued?

I like this.
In fact, I use it instead of stun for subdual crits, because players don't like waiting for their turn.

Cheers

[Morgenstern]

Is the goal to make lethal damage a JOKE compared to subdual? Just checking.

[Mister Andersen]

Another option: 1st crit just completely chews through whatever vitality the target has and brings it down to 0.

[glimmerrat]

How about you have to pay an extra action die if they have at least half cover?

[Agent 333]

Is the goal to make lethal damage a JOKE compared to subdual? Just checking.

The goal is to prevent combats from ending anticlimactically. Yes, without also modifying subdual this would make lethal a joke. However, with Resilient Heroes also in place, it'll be next to impossible to knock someone out with stress or subdual because they can make a save every round to reduce their fatigued/shaken grade. With both that and my suggestion in place, lethal takes a while to kill the opponent, but you know it will happen eventually. Subdual could take him out faster, but it's less certain.

[Morgenstern]

The goal is to prevent combats from ending anticlimactically.

It sounds clearly put, but what does that actually mean? When battlecomputer player can say "ok guys, we only need to be able to endure this foe's attacks for 8 rounds and we've got him, assuming average attack and damage rolls..." I'm hard pressed to come up with anything more anticlimactic.

Where do you see dramatic tension comming from in the combat system? Because as it stands now rare events disrupting battlecomputer player's expectations are pretty much it.

Let's back way up. The assumption is in a well-balanced table top RPG encounter players win. Not a lot of drama there, I think. What are you willing to do to shake up that assumption? What costs could be leveled against them other than death and re-rolling characters, because that's one area where I think MMO design is beating the living tar out of table top play - the price of failure is comparatively low (spawn circle, some minor cost in time and gold, whatever) while I think tabletop is mired in the all-or-nothing anihilation of characters that makes table top players into risk adverse sissies. We have no Leroy Jenkins moments where a player can just say "fuckitall, I go for it!" and not get spanked with the ultimate penalty, likey for the whole party. You suggest iron man play in a MMO and people rightly laugh at you. But table top you rarely see anything but iron man play and a few ridiculous magical (deific) cludges to get around it.

I think if characters inherantly had an out, we'd see more ambitious play. Players would take more risks, and getting their butts handed to them on occasion would make the victories all the sweeter. Take the Lord of the Rings MMO (I play that a lot, so I can speak to it). You don't have vitality points - you have" morale". When your morale is 0, you are disabled and can either wait for another hero to give you the encouragmeent to take up your blade again, or you can fall back to the nearest rally point. Fall back. Not die. Not re-roll characters for an hour. Its thematic and built into the system. You don't need magical resurection (largely inappropriate to the setting), because the hero was never dead in the first place. Heck, even healing makes a load more sense, in that you don't heal wounds, you recieve encouragement, increasing your morale.

[Morgenstern]

Another option: 1st crit just completely chews through whatever vitality the target has and brings it down to 0.

That is... intriguing. I will meditate upon the ramifications of this.

[Deral]

Another option: 1st crit just completely chews through whatever vitality the target has and brings it down to 0.

This makes me imagine a multi-die critical hit table like the critical failures table from SC2.0, different effects for different numbers of action dice spent based on your threat range. Anybody else think that sounds enjoyable? I kinda like the idea.

[glimmerrat]

And you can spend a number of action dice equal to your threat range? Or by spending an action die you get the result on the table equal to your threat range. Something like:

Threat range 20
1) May spend 1 action die on the threat to cause result X1 on the crit table

Threat range 19-20
1) May spend 1 action die on the threat to cause result X2 on the crit table
or
2) May spend 1 or 2 action dice on the threat to cause result X1 or X2 on the crit table

Threat range 18-20
1) May spend 1 action die on the threat to cause result X3 on the crit table
or
2) May spend 1, 2 or 3 action dice on the threat to cause result X1, X2 or X3 on the crit table

Now tell me that this is a dumb idea, so I can stop thinking.

[Deral]

And you can spend a number of action dice equal to your threat range? Or by spending an action die you get the result on the table equal to your threat range. Something like:

Threat range 20
1) May spend 1 action die on the threat to cause result X1 on the crit table

Threat range 19-20
1) May spend 1 action die on the threat to cause result X2 on the crit table
or
2) May spend 1 or 2 action dice on the threat to cause result X1 or X2 on the crit table

Threat range 18-20
1) May spend 1 action die on the threat to cause result X3 on the crit table
or
2) May spend 1, 2 or 3 action dice on the threat to cause result X1, X2 or X3 on the crit table

Now tell me that this is a dumb idea, so I can stop thinking.

Actually I think both of those ideas could work well, balance might be a tough one, since you don't want to make those 18-20 weapons even more desirable than they already are (my players will barely touch a 20 threat weapon), hmmm...

[Sletchman]

I'd be more inclined to go with something like (off the top of the noggin, basically what I've done in games, just written out):

Critical Hits
1 Die:
Cause wound damage / automatically fail a damage save.
Roll on Table of Ouch, apply result to target.
Inflict 1 grade of Fatigued or Shaken to the target (in addition to regular vitality damage).
Inflict a failed damage save on one of the targets possessions (must be in reach / visible).

2 AD:
Apply 2 Dice worth of effects from 1 Die list simultaneously (may choose the same multiple times).

3 AD:
Apply all 3 Dice worth of effects simultaneously (from previous lists).
Reduce the target to 0 Vitality (Special Characters only).


For what it's worth, I'm not a fan of minimum threat requirements - players will just end up using them to the exclusion of other more characterful weapons.  Looking to expand my list if anyone has any ideas - usually my players would have just said "how many dice for X" and I'd come up with something on the spot and jot it down for next time it comes up.  Of course if you don't like it, feel free to say so.

[Sletchman]

Just something else: In my GURPS Fallout game, I allow players to spend 3 Action Dice (house ruled in, much the same as FC/SC Action Dice) to reroll any single dice roll (can be spent after roll is made), or 4 to dictate the outcome of a diceroll about to be made (must be spent before the roll is made).  I'm seriously considering adding those two extras to any future FC / SC games.