New Breath Weapon Feats and Tricks

[paddyfool]

Majorly edited: When I started the thread, I thought I might come up with some feats to represent being highly skilled with a breath weapon, rather than simply having a better one.  

The thread below describes the process of getting from the first spoiler tag, and the first two items in the third spoiler tag, to all the rest...

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Breath Weapon Basics (Ranged Combat Feat)
You're full of puff, even while on the move.
Prerequisites: Breath Weapon
Benefit: You may add the number of Ranged Combat feats you possess to the save DC of your breath weapon.  Also, you gain a trick.
Strafing run (Run trick): You may make a breath attack as a free action with a -1 to hit and damage at any point during a run action.

Breath Weapon Mastery (Ranged Combat Feat)
Few it is who get to trade blows with you unsinged.
Prerequisites: Breath Weapon Basics
Benefit: Your breath weapon gains AP 2.  Also, you gain a trick.
Circle of Fire (Total Defense Trick): Anyone attacking you in melee must make a Reflex Save (DC as breath weapon) or suffer your breath weapon damage.  You may use this trick a number of times per scene equal to the number of Species feats you have.

Breath Weapon Supremacy (Ranged Combat Feat)
Truly, your breath is of the gods.  It certainly sends people to them.
Prerequisites: Breath Weapon Mastery
Benefit: Your threat range with your breath weapon increases by 1.  Also, you gain a trick.
Fearsome exhalation (breath weapon trick):  You may reduce the save DC of your breath weapon by 2 to make a free intimidate check against up to 3 opponents whom you hit.*

*Alternatively, this could "grant your breath weapon the excruciating property."  Which would be mechanically neater and faster to resolve, but doesn't quite feel right.

Breath Master
With a huff and a puff, you'll blow them all away.
Prerequisites: BAB 3+, Breath Weapon
Benefit:You deal an additional 1d4 damage with your breath weapon.

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New Ranged Combat Feats:

Breath Weapon Basics
“You will all burn!”
Prerequisites: Breath Weapon
Benefit: You gain 1 Edge each time you hit two or more adversaries with a single breath weapon attack. Also, you gain a trick.
Circle of Fire (Stance): Once per round per character when an adjacent opponent attacks you they are hit by your breath weapon (after completing their action). They may still make a Reflex Save (DC 10 + the number of Species feats you have + your Con modifier) to suffer only one-half damage (round down). You may not use your breath weapon attack or take movement actions while in this stance (you may still take 5-ft. stpes normally).

Breath Weapon Mastery
You are an artist with a brush of surging flame.
Prerequisites: Breath Weapon Basics
Benefit: When making a breath weapon attack, you may spend 1 Edge to affect 1 additional opponent adjacent to the area encompassed by the breath or to exclude 1 ally in the area from the effects of your breath. Also, you gain a trick.
Bolt of Flame (Run Trick): You may make 1 free breath weapon attack at any point during your movement. You may use this ability a number of times per combat equal to your starting action dice.

Breath Weapon Supremacy
Truly, your breath is of the gods.  It certainly sends people to them.
Prerequisites: Breath Weapon Mastery
Benefit: When making a breath weapon attack, you may spend up to 4 Edge to gain a bonus to the damage roll and Save DC equal to the Edge spent.  Also, you gain a trick.
Fearsome exhalation (breath weapon trick): The save DC of this attack is reduced by 4. As a free action, you may then threaten every opponent who suffered damage from this attack (after DR and resistances are applied). Roll only once for the action, while each opponent rolls to resist separately.

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Breath Weapon Control Ranged Combat
You may favor skill over raw power in your breath weapon but you have plenty of both.
Prerequisites: Breath Weapon Basics.
Benefit:  You may add the number of ranged weapon feats you have to species feats when determining effects of your breath weapon.  Also you gain a trick:
Spitfire (Breath weapon trick): You may use your breath weapon against a single target at up to 4 range increments.  Each range increment is your normal breath weapon range.

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Two of mine:

Forceful exhalation (breath weapon trick)
A deep inhalation from your character may portend a mighty gale.  You may reduce the save DC of your breath weapon by 3 to grant it the Massive quality.

Rebounding exhalation (breath weapon trick)  When targeting an opponent standing adjacent to a solid obstacle, you may elect to halve the width or length of your breath weapon to make two attack rolls against them.  You may only make one attack roll against all other opponents under the breath weapon area.

Two of mine somewhat modified by Morgenstern:

Jaws Dripping with Fire (Bite attack trick): Choose one of your breath weapon attacks. This attack does the same type of damage.

Held to the Fire (Grapple Benefit): If you win you inflict your breath weapon damage upon 1 grapple opponent.[/quote]

More new feats & tricks created by The Grand User can be found on page 2 of this thread.  I'll put them in here when he says they're finalised.

[Blankbeard]

why aren't these species feats? 

They do look good.  As an option would circle of fire work better as a total defense trick?

Circle of Fire (Total Defense Trick): Anyone attacking you in melee must make a Reflex Save (DC 10 + your Dexterity Modifier + the number of Species feats you have) or suffer your breath weapon damage.  You may use this trick a number of times equal to the number of Species feats you have.

[paddyfool]

why aren't these species feats?  

Partly to have them easier to get (with bonus feats from soldier etc.), partly to emphasise that they're about skillful use of an ability rather than the ability itself (although I may be in error here) and partly to make the Basics benefit work.  (Although if they were Species feats, I'd switch that benefit out for Unarmed Combat Feats).

They do look good.  As an option would circle of fire work better as a total defense trick?

Circle of Fire (Total Defense Trick): Anyone attacking you in melee must make a Reflex Save (DC 10 + your Dexterity Modifier + the number of Species feats you have) or suffer your breath weapon damage.  You may use this trick a number of times equal to the number of Species feats you have.

Thank you, and yes, yes it would.  Yoink!

[paddyfool]

A couple more tricks:

A snap and a puff: (Bite attack trick, requires breath weapon and bite attack).  You have grown adept at using brief exhalations on targets who step within reach of your jaws.  When making a bite attack, you may increase your error rate by 1 to convert the damage type to the same as your breath weapon.

Grab 'em and blast 'em: (Grapple trick, requires breath weapon).  When making a grapple check against an opponent who is already held, you may increase your error rate by 1 to attempt a new benefit (by which you deal your breath weapon damage to the held opponent, with the usual save DC for half).

Also, an alternative idea for the feats: What if the non-trick benefit for the Basics feat was "For each two opponents hit with a single breath weapon attack, you gain 1 edge (round down)" and the non-trick benefit for the Supremacy was: "When making a breath weapon attack, you may spend X edge where X is a number between 1 and 4 to increase the damage and save DC by X"?  Seems a little more fun and less generic than just raising the save DC and threat range...

[Blankbeard]

A couple more tricks:

A snap and a puff: (Bite attack trick, requires breath weapon and bite attack).  You have grown adept at using brief exhalations on targets who step within reach of your jaws.  When making a bite attack, you may increase your error rate by 1 to convert the damage type to the same as your breath weapon.

Looks good to me.

Grab 'em and blast 'em: (Grapple trick, requires breath weapon).  When making a grapple check against an opponent who is already held, you may increase your error rate by 1 to attempt a new benefit (by which you deal your breath weapon damage to the held opponent, with the usual save DC for half).

I think the wording may be simplified by making it a grapple benefit. 

Grab 'em and blast 'em: (Grapple benefit, requires breath weapon):  One held opponent suffers your breath weapon damage.

Also, an alternative idea for the feats: What if the non-trick benefit for the Basics feat was "For each two opponents hit with a single breath weapon attack, you gain 1 edge (round down)" and the non-trick benefit for the Supremacy was: "When making a breath weapon attack, you may spend X edge where X is a number between 1 and 4 to increase the damage and save DC by X"?  Seems a little more fun and less generic than just raising the save DC and threat range...

The new basics benefit looks good.  Optionally, you might gain edge when someone fails a saving throw against the breath weapon.  For the Supremacy benefit, how about letting them spend edge to affect additional squares adjacent to squares already affected by the breath weapon? 

[paddyfool]

I think the wording may be simplified by making it a grapple benefit.  

Grab 'em and blast 'em: (Grapple benefit, requires breath weapon):  One held opponent suffers your breath weapon damage.

Simpler is better, but I'm also a fan of explicit.  How about this:

Grab 'em and blast 'em: (Grapple benefit trick, requires breath weapon):  You gain a new grapple benefit option: Blast.  When you take this option, one held opponent suffers your breath weapon damage.

Not entirely sure whether they should get a save for half damage.  As it's individually targeted and they're being held in place, I'm now thinking not.  And it probably isn't overpowered, on reflection, since it's not really any more effective than shanking someone with a longsword or hitting them with a nicely upgraded natural attack.

The new basics benefit looks good.  Optionally, you might gain edge when someone fails a saving throw against the breath weapon.

I'd thought about that, but for "edge" as "combat advantage", I'm happy with counting opponents diving for cover as something of a win.

For the Supremacy benefit, how about letting them spend edge to affect additional squares adjacent to squares already affected by the breath weapon?  

Or the Mastery benefit, perhaps (with additional damage from the Supremacy benefit, AP is less necessary).  Something like: When making a breath weapon attack, you may spend 2 edge to also affect a single opponent on a square adjacent to those affected by your breath weapon.  (Might not see much use after they get Supremacy, however... would 1 edge be fairer?)

EDIT: The different version would then look like this:


Breath Weapon Basics (Species Feat)
You're full of puff, even while on the move.
Prerequisites: Breath Weapon
Benefit: For each two opponents hit with a single breath weapon attack, you gain 1 edge (round down).  Also, you gain a trick.
Strafing run (Run trick): You may make a breath attack as a free action with a -1 to hit and damage at any point during a run action.

Breath Weapon Mastery (Species Feat)
Few it is who get to trade blows with you unsinged.
Prerequisites: Breath Weapon Basics
Benefit: When making a breath weapon attack, you may spend 1 edge to also affect a single opponent on a square adjacent to those affected by your breath weapon.  Also, you gain a trick.
Circle of Fire (Total Defense Trick): Anyone attacking you in melee must make a Reflex Save (DC as breath weapon) or suffer your breath weapon damage.  You may use this trick a number of times per scene equal to the number of Species feats you have.

Breath Weapon Supremacy (Species Feat)
Truly, your breath is of the gods.  It certainly sends people to them.
Prerequisites: Breath Weapon Mastery
Benefit: When making a breath weapon attack, you may spend X edge where X is a number between 1 and 4 to increase the damage and save DC by X.  Also, you gain a trick.
Fearsome exhalation (breath weapon trick):  You may reduce the save DC of your breath weapon by 2 to make a free intimidate check against up to 3 opponents whom you hit.*

*Alternatively, this could "grant your breath weapon the excruciating property."  Which would be mechanically neater and faster to resolve, but doesn't quite feel right.

Breath Master (Species feat)
With a huff and a puff, you'll blow them all away.
Prerequisites: BAB 3+, Breath Weapon
Benefit:You deal an additional 1d4 damage with your breath weapon.

One big caveat on all of this: I've never played a drake, or in a group with a drake.  I just thought it might be fun if they had some tricks to play with with their breath weapons.

EDIT: I do think they lose quite a lot of usability by being species feats.  At a little bit of a stretch, they could be reclassified as Basic, Ranged, or Unarmed combat feats.  If they were Basic Combat feats, they could be taken as bonus feats by the Soldier, Explorer, or Sage (and be a handy option to take for Captains); if Ranged Combat, by the Soldier, Scout, or Sage; and if Unarmed Combat, by the Soldier, Martial Artist, or Sage.  The last of those sets of classes is the most appropriate, on the whole... but any one of them would require going back to a rehash of the original Basics ability, which means bumping up the current Basics ability and dropping the Mastery ability.  Would that be better, do you think?

[Glacialis]

Ranged tricks that don't require a weapon would be useful too.

[magustoad]

I'm a big fan of being able to buy species in place of class-list feats during progression.  It just makes sense to me.

[Blankbeard]

Put these feats in the tree that works best for them.  But I don't think you need to change the benefits of the feats.  They form a more cohesive whole than adding the ranged feats to the breath weapon dc.  If you want that benefit around, how about putting it in a different feat ala the "Moves" feats from 2.0

Breath Weapon Control Ranged Combat (Or Unarmed or species, where ever the rest end up)
You may favor skill over raw power in your breath weapon but you have plenty of both.
Prerequisites: Breath Weapon Basics.
Benefit:  You may add the number of ranged weapon feats you have to species feats when determining effects of your breath weapon.  Also you gain a trick:
Spitfire (Breath weapon trick):  You may use your breath weapon against a single target at up to 4 range increments.  Each range increment is your normal breath weapon range.

For whatever reason, I don't seem to be able to insert quotes now. :/ 

Glacialis:  I can't think of any.  Ideas? 

Magustoad:  There's an app campaign quality for that  

[The_Grand_User]

EDIT: I do think they lose quite a lot of usability by being species feats.  At a little bit of a stretch, they could be reclassified as Basic, Ranged, or Unarmed combat feats.  If they were Basic Combat feats, they could be taken as bonus feats by the Soldier, Explorer, or Sage (and be a handy option to take for Captains); if Ranged Combat, by the Soldier, Scout, or Sage; and if Unarmed Combat, by the Soldier, Martial Artist, or Sage.  The last of those sets of classes is the most appropriate, on the whole... but any one of them would require going back to a rehash of the original Basics ability, which means bumping up the current Basics ability and dropping the Mastery ability.  Would that be better, do you think?

I would also say that the Breath Weapon line of feats would make just as much sense as Species Feats as making all the Unarmed Combat feats species feats instead; just because you're using part of your own body as a weapon very well doesn't mean you have to use Species Feats to implement it. Species feats are for changes to your body, the others are changes to how you use it. I say leave them as Ranged Combat feats (plus the drakes could use some variety ).

[paddyfool]

Version 3: Going with Unarmed combat feats, and adopting Blankbeard's suggestion

Breath Weapon Basics (Unarmed combat feat)
You're full of puff, even while on the move.
Prerequisites: Breath Weapon
Benefit: For each two opponents hit with a single breath weapon attack, you gain 1 edge (round down).  Also, you gain a trick.
Strafing run (Run trick): You may make a breath attack as a free action with a -1 to hit and damage at any point during a run action.

Breath Weapon Mastery (Unarmed combat feat)
Few are they who get to trade blows with you unsinged.
Prerequisites: Breath Weapon Basics
Benefit: When making a breath weapon attack, you may spend 1 edge to also affect a single opponent on a square adjacent to those affected by your breath weapon.  Also, you gain a trick.
Circle of Fire (Total Defense Trick): Anyone attacking you in melee must make a Reflex Save (DC as breath weapon) or suffer your breath weapon damage.  You may use this trick a number of times per scene equal to the number of Species feats you have.

Breath Weapon Supremacy (Unarmed combat feat)
Truly, your breath is of the gods.  It certainly sends people to them.
Prerequisites: Breath Weapon Mastery
Benefit: When making a breath weapon attack, you may spend X edge where X is a number between 1 and 4 to increase the damage and save DC by X.  Also, you gain a trick.
Fearsome exhalation (breath weapon trick):  You may reduce the save DC of your breath weapon by 2 to make a free intimidate check against up to 3 opponents whom you hit.

Breath Master (Unarmed combat feat)
With a huff and a puff, you'll blow them all away.
Prerequisites: BAB 3+, Breath Weapon
Benefit:You deal an additional 1d4 damage with your breath weapon.

Breath weapon control: As Blankbeard put it.

[Morgenstern]

Tinkering with the language a little bit and juggling the order of some effects (because Circle of Flame as a stance is sexy) I get~

NEW UNARMED COMBAT FEATS
Breath Weapon Basics
“You will all burn!”
Prerequisites: Breath Weapon
Benefit: You gain 1 Edge each time you hit two or more adversaries with a single breath weapon attack. Also, you gain a trick.
Circle of Fire (Stance): Once per round per character when an adjacent opponent attacks you they are hit by your breath weapon (after completing their action). They may still make a Reflex Save (DC 10 + the number of Species feats you have + your Con modifier) to suffer only one-half damage (round down). You may not use your breath weapon attack or take movement actions while in this stance (you may still take 5-ft. stpes normally).

Breath Weapon Mastery
You are an artist with a brush of surging flame.
Prerequisites: Breath Weapon Basics
Benefit: When making a breath weapon attack, you may spend 1 Edge to affect 1 additional opponent adjacent to the area encompassed by the breath or to exclude 1 ally in the area from the effects of your breath. Also, you gain a trick.
Bolt of Flame (Run Trick): You may make 1 free breath weapon attack at any point during your movement. You may use this ability a number of times per combat equal to your starting action dice.

Breath Weapon Supremacy
Truly, your breath is of the gods.  It certainly sends people to them.
Prerequisites: Breath Weapon Mastery
Benefit: When making a breath weapon attack, you may spend up to 4 Edge to gain a bonus to the damage roll and Save DC equal to the Edge spent.  Also, you gain a trick.
Fearsome exhalation (breath weapon trick): The save DC of this attack is reduced by 4. As a free action, you may then threaten every opponent who suffered damage from this attack (after DR and resistances are applied). Roll only once for the action, while each opponent rolls to resist separately.

[paddyfool]

I like the input, particularly the improvement to the Mastery benefit.  However, it seems to me that that version of the stance that became a trick that became a stance might be a tad overpowered compared to existing retributive mechanics (e.g. Combat Instincts).  Maybe if it did half damage or none?

Also, what do you make of the tricks?

[Morgenstern]

As a stance that prevents you from using your breath weapon attack, it completley disables the rest of the feat chain - pretty good tension between benefits there. Comparing it to Combat Instincts is a good idea - while it eats up your stance slot I agree its slightly too good. Went back and added the movement restriction to damp it down.

The new tricks are probably ok as stand alone options, but you may benefit from folding them into feats that have a breath weapon requirment just for simplicity's sake.

NEW TRICKS
Jaws Dripping with Fire (Bite attack trick): Choose one of your breath weapon attacks. This attack does the same type of damage.

Held to the Fire (Grapple Benefit): If you win you inflict your breath weapon damage upon 1 grapple opponent.

[paddyfool]

Like the rebranding. 

I'll probably be offline again 'til early Sept now, but after that I reckon I'll stick all this up on the DB.  (Still see-sawing on ranged vs unarmed though; Drake Martial Artists hardly need any more love, whereas I do like the idea of Drake Scouts as ambush predators, and as a ranged attack that uses the unarmed proficiency, it seems equally valid as either).