May play Fastasycraft. Need some information on how the game plays

[Blankbeard]

Take a "special" npc who's human. No special rules or defenses against either stress or lethal, no special campaign qualities to modify it. Which damage type will take the npc out faster?

It really depends on the NPC.  A single critical hit will take out most most typical humans.  It's not that hard to do 18 points of damage, enough to kill an 18 Con person, with a single hit especially when you can throw an action die on top.  So how instantly deadly lethal is depends on things like crit range.

Stress and subdual damage force saves against graded conditions.  In order to be removed from combat, you have to fail five saves.  The DC is set by 1/2 the total damage of each type.  Each time you fail a save, the damage total resets to zero.  So how "deadly" these two damage types are depends largely on saves as well as NPC options (and character options) that apply. 

The short answer is that critical hits give lethal damage the best chance of taking out a character on any given round.  Absent critical hits, nonlethal damage will take out a special quicker than going through vitality.

And btw, someone being knocked out by a verbal threat dealing stress is... well, I don't want to be insulting, as I DO like FC overall, and I don't want to offend anyone, but it's ridiculous. Frightening them, getting them to surrender or flee, or enraging them, or... sure. But knocking them out? Come on, seriously?

Nothing will break if you change it.  The important part is that being shaken while having Shaken IV removes you from combat.  There's also a system in the Spycraft 2.0 supplement Fragile Minds that expands on what stress damage does.

But you've never seen anyone faint under stress?  Not even in a movie?

[Morfedel]

Baring 'freak accidents' if someone starts punching you, you will fall unconscious before you die.

Punching someone? I'd rather have someone punch me than come after me with a broadsword any day.

No, it's weapons of mass destruction.

Didn't really have much in terms of WMDs back in the days of knights and longbowmen.

Many military weapons were not designed for lethality. A wounded soldier is better for the opposing side then a dead soldier.

A vast majority were, however.

An informed one, though.

An informed opinion, that realism is overrated? Is it also your informed opinion that vanilla is better than chocolate?

Please, you are welcome to your opinion, but I draw the line at your telling me what I have to find the more enjoyable method of gaming.

Critical hits.

It is impossible, in a vacuum, to give a definitive answer. There is no such thing as a 'vanilla' special NPC. Their numbers are defined (for the most part) by the PC's average party level and by the role they take in game.

Then the issue is that the PC doing the damage can have a much higher impact then the actual number of points. Heck, above level 14 any competent Soldier could one shot a special by using One in a Million and Most Deadly with whatever options he chooses to boost his typical damage to 10 points a hit.

As for the stress leads to unconscious, thing. The Threaten action seems to be the source of you issue. Since just seeing eldritch horrors from beyond space and time also do stress. So does being on fire. So does seeing your friends get eaten by the dragon.

That said, it's up to the GM (and maybe the players. depends on the table) to describe what happens. Rather then think of it as unconsciousness, which is an easy thing to write as the rule. But what failing a damage save really means is that the standard NPC is rendered hors de combat. They may be dead, they may be unconscious, they may be gibbering in the corned, or they may be fleeing for the hills.

The same more or less applies to Specials.

And see, this was the kind of explanations I was looking for.  Thanks, my fears are now for the most part allayed.

[Morfedel]

Take a "special" npc who's human. No special rules or defenses against either stress or lethal, no special campaign qualities to modify it. Which damage type will take the npc out faster?

It really depends on the NPC.  A single critical hit will take out most most typical humans.  It's not that hard to do 18 points of damage, enough to kill an 18 Con person, with a single hit especially when you can throw an action die on top.  So how instantly deadly lethal is depends on things like crit range.

Stress and subdual damage force saves against graded conditions.  In order to be removed from combat, you have to fail five saves.  The DC is set by 1/2 the total damage of each type.  Each time you fail a save, the damage total resets to zero.  So how "deadly" these two damage types are depends largely on saves as well as NPC options (and character options) that apply. 

The short answer is that critical hits give lethal damage the best chance of taking out a character on any given round.  Absent critical hits, nonlethal damage will take out a special quicker than going through vitality.

Actually, THIS was the kind of answer I was really looking for! Thank you!!

And btw, someone being knocked out by a verbal threat dealing stress is... well, I don't want to be insulting, as I DO like FC overall, and I don't want to offend anyone, but it's ridiculous. Frightening them, getting them to surrender or flee, or enraging them, or... sure. But knocking them out? Come on, seriously?

Nothing will break if you change it.  The important part is that being shaken while having Shaken IV removes you from combat.  There's also a system in the Spycraft 2.0 supplement Fragile Minds that expands on what stress damage does.

But you've never seen anyone faint under stress?  Not even in a movie?

Ok, perhaps I over exaggerated a TAD, but the point being, fainting from stress is a relatively rare thing.

[ArawnNox]

Didn't really have much in terms of WMDs back in the days of knights and longbowmen.

Sure they did. They were called Catapults, Trebuchets, Ballistae, Cannons, Typhoid Marys, and good ole fashioned Fire.

Ok, perhaps I over exaggerated a TAD, but the point being, fainting from stress is a relatively rare thing.

Just because we're not put in those situations commonly NOW...
I saw a man pass out because he had an IV needle put into him.

[Doublebond]

Ok, perhaps I over exaggerated a TAD, but the point being, fainting from stress is a relatively rare thing.

Stress damage is not a common damage. Don't worry too much about stress.

[Morfedel]

Ok, perhaps I over exaggerated a TAD, but the point being, fainting from stress is a relatively rare thing.

Stress damage is not a common damage. Don't worry too much about stress.

Don't stress about stress? hehe!

[Morfedel]

Didn't really have much in terms of WMDs back in the days of knights and longbowmen.

Sure they did. They were called Catapults, Trebuchets, Ballistae, Cannons, Typhoid Marys, and good ole fashioned Fire.

That hardly compares to things like nuclear missiles and carpet bombing. Those were siege weapons, not weapons of mass destruction. I'd argue there is a significant distinction.

[ArawnNox]

Didn't really have much in terms of WMDs back in the days of knights and longbowmen.

Sure they did. They were called Catapults, Trebuchets, Ballistae, Cannons, Typhoid Marys, and good ole fashioned Fire.

That hardly compares to things like nuclear missiles and carpet bombing. Those were siege weapons, not weapons of mass destruction. I'd argue there is a significant distinction.

And I'd argue relative scale.

[Blankbeard]

Actually, THIS was the kind of answer I was really looking for! Thank you!!

Not a problem.  While Fantasy Craft isn't for everyone, it is a very well thought out system. 

Ok, perhaps I over exaggerated a TAD, but the point being, fainting from stress is a relatively rare thing.

Quite possibly I'm overthinking my response.   Here is a 2007 powerpoint from Captain Bill Nash on combat stress.  What I wanted to point out was the part where he says that 10% of the casualties in WWII were from stress.  So stress can be a significant way to remove people from combat.  I think we're in agreement so far.

In Spycraft 2.0 Fragile Minds covered all sorts of effects of stress, everything from being rattled to deciding that a firefight is a wonderful time to have tea with Mr Cuddles.  But it's a good 7 or so pages of rules that just wouldn't fit into Fantasy Craft.  For simplicity's sake, all three basic types of damage have the same outcome.  But the game expects that the GC will customize it and this is an area where it's easy to do so.

[Coyote0273]

A perfect example of how dangerous stress damage really is... is the language guy in Saving Private Ryan, where he's paralyzed from fear at the base of the stairs, while 20 feet away his friend is screaming for help and being stabbed to death.

Nobody's touched him, he hasn't taken a point of damage, but he's not a combatant, and has failed all his Shaken saves and is no longer an active person in the combat.

[Blankbeard]

I don't think the danger posed by stress damage is the issue here.  It's how the normal effect of that is unconsciousness. 

[Coyote0273]

I don't think the danger posed by stress damage is the issue here.  It's how the normal effect of that is unconsciousness. 

The arguement was how unrealistic stress damage taking a person out of combat was as compared to normal weapons that deal lethal damage.

[Goodlun]

I don't think the danger posed by stress damage is the issue here.  It's how the normal effect of that is unconsciousness. 

I would almost call paralyzing fear to be fairly == to being unconscious at least in an abstracted sense. 

[Blankbeard]

I don't think the danger posed by stress damage is the issue here.  It's how the normal effect of that is unconsciousness. 

I would almost call paralyzing fear to be fairly == to being unconscious at least in an abstracted sense. 

Yeah, I don't disagree.  Stress, subdual, and lethal all have the effect of removing characters from combat.  How you skin it is up to you.

I think the same goes for the actions themselves.  I'm fine with a threaten action being words of doom that haunt the target or a minor spell that causes visions of reapers come calling.  As long as the effect stays the same, it should be good.

[Morfedel]

I don't think the danger posed by stress damage is the issue here.  It's how the normal effect of that is unconsciousness. 

The arguement was how unrealistic stress damage taking a person out of combat was as compared to normal weapons that deal lethal damage.

Not entirely true. Partially, but unconsciousness was a part of it too, as you will notice if you go back and read my complaints.