Undead PC's

[Catodon]

Species polished. See first post in thread.
...and added 'life insurance' to the feat version.

[Glacialis]

Don't have my books with me but what about Fey? Are there others?

[Catodon]

Don't have my books with me but what about Fey? Are there others?

Well caught. updating feat now.

[Glacialis]

Unread pixie swarms FTW!

[Catodon]

Unread pixie swarms FTW!

hehe
yes, but also Banshee's, nuckelavee, the dead marshes of LOTR etc.

EDIT: misspelled nuckelavee

[Morgenstern]

I think the species feat approach will be much more addaptable, especially in light of undead being largely defined as an after-market modification . It seems liek a good candidate as a root feat enabling several prossible branches... or as single feat with a package of choices, not too unlike the Basic Skill Mastery or Elemental heritage feats. Baiscally a core offering (the undead type, possibly with some limitations to reduce value) and then a choice of bundle X, Y, or Z for more specific types of unquiet dead.

[Catodon]

Yeh I'm leaning toward the feat approach too. If anyone want to add some feats to the tree go for it. As we have seen there are plenty of differing versions for any undead anyway, just look at all the vampires we have. If you do do this I'd list Deathless as the prerequisite rather than Undead to avoid clashes with other versions of undead PCs and the rules tangles that would cause.

[Catodon]

This is probably the hardest undead to pack into a species feat. I've had to go beyond the wiki and wing it quite a bit. Therefore I'd really like peoples' feedback on this one.

Ghost
Be it tasks undone, love beyond life, thirst for revenge, or sheer will to live you have become a restless spirit.
Prerequisites: Deathless.
Benefit: When your body is destroyed you do not cease to exist on the mortal plane but instead your restless essence leaves your body, you may return in the next adventure without suffering the effects of Cheating Death. If creating a new character you may choose to enter the game already dead and a ghost. After your material destruction you gain the following. You gain the Spirit (FC227) type [3.5]. Unlike most spirits ghosts are limited in their ability to become solid. A ghost can only become solid for a number of rounds equal to number of species feats + charisma mod (min 1) each scene. [-0.5]. A ghost that is killed is ‘banished’ to the afterlife and must Cheat Death to return.
Authors Note:
These ghosts are not the same as those described in the core rules FC288. I have created a very minimalist interpretation of ghost able to be covered by a species feat for Deathless. This is also a good way to represent those pesky undead who just wont stay down, even after you burn the corpse.
Incorporeal allows you to bypass many obsticles much like flight 50 [2.5] and grants immunity to physical damage (only, my reading is that fire and other damage types affect incorporeal characters normally) [best guess 1]. The resistances and other effects of Undead have been paid for by Deathless. The limitation on becoming solid is worth little because in part a canny player can easily ramp this up to around 5 uses/scene even at first level effectively negating most of the restriction in all but the most gruelling scenes.
Becoming a ghost really changes how a character plays. You gain a massive advantage in scouting and defence but are powerless to inflict physical damage while incorporeal. A ghost therefore must rely on spells and other special abilities much more than other characters.

[Catodon]

Ghost now on the FC database. More to come soon.

[Catodon]

for your consideration and comment:

Skeleton
Your flesh has been cleaned from your bones or perhaps just rotted away.
Prerequisites: Deathless, undead.
Benefit: You gain Tenacious Spirit granting 1 additional vitality per level [2]. You also gain the following NPC qualities Damage Immunity (Bows) [0.5], Damage defiance Edged [0.5].

Author’s Note
Unlike the Ghost this is very like the NPC template. I have switched Ferocity for the PC ability Tenacious Spirit but that’s it. I have priced the damage immunity and damage defiance at 0.5, similar to Bleeding Immunity and reverse engineering the construct type of unborn. Unlike the Ghost feat Skeleton can only be taken by characters who are already dead with the unborn type.

[SilvercatMoonpaw]

I'm not so sure those two traits should be priced so low: immunity to bleeding is no big deal, since there's very little instance of it.  But bows are usually common, and edged weapons are even more common.  Plus you've given those traits 0.5 when, I think, only getting 5 in a Resistance is 1.

[Catodon]

THank you. Will have another go (late here). Any chance of looking over the ghost I'm even more unsure of that one.

[SilvercatMoonpaw]

I'll give it a shot, but I'm sure there are people on here who can do a much better job than I can:

Bypasses obstacles like flight allows?
* Flight is more of an aid to bypassing as anything it can deal with a non-flight character can deal with given skills, time, and probably equipment.  It's more a glorified Climb and Jump in that respect.  It can keep a character reasonably safe in combat, but only so much what with common ranged attacks, and flight in most forms characters get can be disrupted (I'm not sure about all).

* By contrast incorporeality can bypass things that no normal character has a chance of bypassing.  It's methods of countering in combat aren't as common (not that I can remember at the moment).  Is there even a way to disrupt it in the rules?  If the character is built around interacting with the world through physical means, then not being corporeal might be a drawback, but as soon as magic enters the picture I'm not so sure.

These two are not equivalent.

Plus even in your calculation Immunity (physical damage) would be HUGE: if Resistance to one kind of a rating of only 5 is 1 point then this is probably worth something like Resistance 30 (6 points) multiplied by how ever many sources of physical damage there are.

This isn't the work of one feat.  You'd need a whole lot of feats, maybe even some kind of class, just to spread the abilities out enough.

EDIT: I think you're trying too hard to give everything out all at once.  Put more feats in between being dead and being a skeleton or ghost: have the character work up to full via granting Resistances and time-limited incorporeality.

[paddyfool]

Ghost would be a very fine defensive upgrade with very little penalty for a character who focused on non-physical modes of attack, such as a Mage who was good at threatening people.

You could nerf this somewhat by adding some additional vulnerabilities specific to ghosts.  Two possibilities might be:
- Extra vulnerability above and beyond that generally pertaining to undead to various effects traditionally useful against ghosts, perhaps in the form of a penalty to saves vs turning, achilles heel (divine), and/or some additional effects of hallowed ground
- Achilles heel (stress damage) as ghosts are often held together by an act of will

Such measures could mean that while the character wouldn't be worried about the usual physical threats, they would have plenty to occupy their attention from other avenues.

[Catodon]

Thank you both for your excellent suggestions many of which will end up in the final versions. Yeh, incorporeal and flight are not equivalent but I was looking for most similar to get me in the ball park then seek comment from the forum to refine. Compared to my 25+ years in stuff like GURPS and AD&D I'm still very new to FC. I have very little free time and I don't get to play in RL so the forum is both my game table and my review by peers.
As always your feedback is invaluable.