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Author Topic: Any tips for GMs of 7-player groups?  (Read 724 times)
Glacialis
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« on: May 28, 2011, 12:23:33 PM »

I know FC can take it Cheesy but is there anything specific I should be aware of?
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« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2011, 01:29:51 PM »

As a general rule for any RPG with large groups: It is easy for people to get lost in the crowd. Make sure you give everyone opportunities for spotlight moments, and help the less assertive players get a word in edgewise.

And for the crunchy games (like FC): When you hit initiative order, it can be a very long time between turns for any given player. Make sure everyone is familier with the rules, and do anything else you can to keep the game moving so that that time is minimised.
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« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2011, 02:28:45 PM »

I'd encourage side initiative with a group that big (either have the PC with the highest init make the roll for his side, or the lowest, or my favorite: find the average of all the init scores among the PCs and let the Init roller be a rotating position).

Just let all the PCs go, in whatever order they choose, then all the bad guys go, and back and forth. That's a step in the direction of "everybody gets involved", since the PCs get to decide among themselves how they're going to work each round.
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« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2011, 03:09:54 PM »

Also keep in mind that large groups will have an easier time defeating Special NPCs in any kind of combat as their stats remain static whether they are facing 1 PC or 10 PCs.

It is a house rule and not official for FC, but it is for this reason I tend to use the old Spycraft method to determine Special NPC Threat Level, which is the [ (Sum of the Party Levels) / 5] rounded up.  Then I apply the modifier for the Menace level.
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« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2011, 05:01:06 PM »

I'd encourage side initiative with a group that big (either have the PC with the highest init make the roll for his side, or the lowest, or my favorite: find the average of all the init scores among the PCs and let the Init roller be a rotating position).

Just let all the PCs go, in whatever order they choose, then all the bad guys go, and back and forth. That's a step in the direction of "everybody gets involved", since the PCs get to decide among themselves how they're going to work each round.

Interesting idea... but I'd be worried that debating on who goes when might actually add more delay, rather than less.

How about a halfway house?  Have the players all roll initiative, but the GM roll once for all the opponents (using their modal initiative, or the initiative of their leader etc. as appropriate).  However, only the highest score rolled counts; after that, everyone goes alternately clockwise then anticlockwise from whoever rolls highest (you'd have to alternate to stop the high Dex Burglar with Combat Reflexes always sitting at the left hand side of the GM).  

EDIT: Further tweak:

1) Every player rolls initiative.  The GM also rolls initiative for whatever his majority/in charge initiative should come from.

2) Highest goes first.

3) The higher of the two people on either side of the highest goes second.  Play then continues in a circle, either clockwise or anticlockwise as appropriate.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2011, 09:44:31 PM by paddyfool » Logged
Doublebond
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« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2011, 05:40:35 PM »

I'd encourage side initiative with a group that big (either have the PC with the highest init make the roll for his side, or the lowest, or my favorite: find the average of all the init scores among the PCs and let the Init roller be a rotating position).

Just let all the PCs go, in whatever order they choose, then all the bad guys go, and back and forth. That's a step in the direction of "everybody gets involved", since the PCs get to decide among themselves how they're going to work each round.

Interesting idea... but I'd be worried that debating on who goes when might actually add more delay, rather than less.

How about a halfway house?  Have the players all roll initiative, but the GM roll once for all the opponents (using their modal initiative, or the initiative of their leader etc. as appropriate).  However, only the highest score rolled counts; after that, everyone goes alternately clockwise then anticlockwise from whoever rolls highest (you'd have to alternate to stop the high Dex Burglar with Combat Reflexes always sitting at the left hand side of the GM). 

Usually I just assign each mob and special npc their own unique initiative. Works well enough, usually, with damage being shared by entire mobs.
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« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2011, 06:59:38 PM »

Interesting idea... but I'd be worried that debating on who goes when might actually add more delay, rather than less.

I'd wager this is going to happen anyway in a large group, and letting them sort out their order might save time over figuring out who can't do what because Bob's init is lower than Julie's.
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« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2011, 07:40:21 AM »

I'd encourage side initiative with a group that big (either have the PC with the highest init make the roll for his side, or the lowest, or my favorite: find the average of all the init scores among the PCs and let the Init roller be a rotating position).

Just let all the PCs go, in whatever order they choose, then all the bad guys go, and back and forth. That's a step in the direction of "everybody gets involved", since the PCs get to decide among themselves how they're going to work each round.

Interesting idea... but I'd be worried that debating on who goes when might actually add more delay, rather than less.

My experience suggests this is true.

What's working for me is the index card method. Have index cards with the character name and initiative modifier on them. Hand them out to the players. At the beginning of each combat, have each player roll, jot down their initiative, and hand the card to you. Then you can sort as you get them. The card saves you the time of asking everyone for their initiative in a serial fashion, and having the bonus on the card keeps you from having to ask who has the higher bonus in case of ties.

As for NPCs, I roll one initiative per stat block, so minion groups all get their own initiative, but different groups might act at different times.
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Glacialis
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« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2011, 04:01:34 PM »

Psion: Yoink! Second game tomorrow, Memorial Day, and I will be using index cards for initiative, as well as the passive skills that a GM might need to have on hand.
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Doublebond
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« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2011, 04:46:09 PM »

Alternatively, there's this.
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Glacialis
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« Reply #10 on: May 29, 2011, 05:25:36 PM »

While I will usually have internet access, I don't want to change my GMing style when the net connection goes down.

That said, there have to be downloadable initiative tracker. It's been a few years since I ran a d20 system so I expect there are more tools now. Thanks for the tip, will research what's out there.
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Doublebond
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« Reply #11 on: May 29, 2011, 09:09:33 PM »

While I will usually have internet access, I don't want to change my GMing style when the net connection goes down.

That said, there have to be downloadable initiative tracker. It's been a few years since I ran a d20 system so I expect there are more tools now. Thanks for the tip, will research what's out there.

RPtools offers one you might find to your liking. Personally, I've always found it to be utter overkill, and as a result tedious to use for tracking initiative and nothing more, for in truth it strives to be an all-in-one combat manager for D20 systems.

So far that link I shared above is the best interface for the simple handling of initiative I've found. The only thing more I might ask for is status effects.
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« Reply #12 on: May 30, 2011, 06:28:51 PM »

One thing that's worked well with my home group... (besides initiative index cards.  those are wonders.)

Announce who's turn it is, and inform the next person that they are up next.  That way, they can redouble their efforts to be ready when they go.  Always announce the next player, even if you have NPCs between them.  Also, this helps the GM keep on task for the opponents.
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« Reply #13 on: May 30, 2011, 08:12:08 PM »

I've also seen GMs put the players in charge of tracking initiative. Usually, this involves the player of a "support" style character (the healer, the tactician, etc.) being the guy who makes a list. Sometimes this happens on a corner of the battlemat, but I game with one guy right now who uses a metal 24" ruler and little magnets glued to pieces of foamcore that he slides around the ruler like a number scale. 

The plus side to this means that all the players can be looking right at the init order, and potentially be planning their moves.
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« Reply #14 on: May 30, 2011, 08:40:48 PM »

KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID! lol  Grin

Also, make sure things are IMMEDIATELY relevant. That means that all those little details that you, as the gm, like to include to flesh out your world need to be important to the PLAYERS, not just their characters. If you're boring the players with long soliloquies about this and that, you're going to lose their interest, no matter how much you think their characters should care. This goes hand-in-hand with KISS.
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