First Impressions/First Character

[Kaptn_Lath]

Oh no what have I done!  

@ Paddyfool: now that I like, Thats a more detailed version of what I suggested earlier in the thread. Also with it being tied to Caster level if you multiclass into a class with caster levels but no added spells known, you DO get spells known (one) because your caster level increased. And the wisdom requirement (wisdom 9 for 0 lvl spells, 18 for 9th level spells) is awesome. It further mitigates dumping all your stat increases into Int, but needing to increase wisdom too. "With great power comes great responsibility" So ya you got the intellegence to cast more difficult spells (higher DC) but do you have the wisdom to learn how to use the higher level spells. I see a thematic RP influence there that is just awesome to ME. Thank you, you saved me some work. I think your suggestions is MORE than what I was looking for thank you.

now about that AP, if you have a target that has DR/2 and fire resistance 2, and I have AP 4, I think maybe negating the two points of DR at a 1-1 ratio, and maybe 1-2 ratio for Fire resistance negating 1 point of fire resistance? just an idea. So AP4 would negate 2 points of fire resistance, or 2 points of DR and 1 point of fire resistance. just some ideas I dont know what the rules actually say.

I could see the sphere centered around you if it was a gas form breath weapon, but my breath weapon being a 360 "wave" of fire dosent seem right. That would be a burst type (Does FC have that??). I initially thought it was like a flaming snot loogy  that explodes into a sphere, but there is no range limit to the center of the sphere. The sphere in front of your character makes logic sense to me. ITs just a different shaped cone or line. I think that was the point of the feat was to just change the shape of the AOE.

Wouldnt a 15ft sphere be shaped like this??

%X %  or  %X%
X X X       X X X
%X %       %X%
0 0             0 0
0 0             0 0  
0 0             0 0

X = Effected  % = not effected 0=me the drake

[paddyfool]

I wouldn't worry about that final bit requiring a high Wisdom for high-level spells. Since you need to hit a DC with your Int-based Spellcasting check, a high mental stat already helps with those high-level spells

A good point, but I'd rather not take Wis out of the equation altogether since it's a nice part of how the class is balanced at the moment.  One possible alternative might be to cap the total number of spells that the mage may ever learn as a multiple of Wis, e.g. no more than 3x(Wis score).  (You'd still want to get your Wis good and high by later levels, with the potential to have 4+20+19+Lifestyle spells known at level 20, but you wouldn't absolutely have to have a high Wis to cast powerful spells).  EDIT: Or, of course, a lower bar on the maximum spell level you can cast, such as Wis+7.

@Kaptn_Lath,

You're welcome!

[Mister Andersen]

So given that you generally aren't immune to the effects of your own breath weapon, why would anyone ever choose the option that inescapably immerses them in its AOE?

Because you are immune to the effects of your own breath weapon? Or maybe in the process of waving your head around you fill the volume with death without hitting yourself. *shrug*

Given the number of mythic instances where creatures have fallen victim to their own extraordinary and supernaturual attacks, it's not an automatic given. And let us not forget the D&D/d20 legacy of getting fragged by falling withn the AoE of your own attacks.

...I don't think I've ever heard of a GM melting the face off his own Green Dragon because it exhaled a cloud of chlorine gas?

Well, I've never seen any instances where it was centred on the user and I'm fairly certain most people you ask would also logically come to the conclusion that all effects move forward of the emission point.

Surrounding yourself in a cloud of death that doesn't affect you? That's at the very least a trick.

[Kaptn_Lath]

Would trading the Winged Flight Drake ability for Thick Hide 4 be a balanced trade? If I were to limit the breath weapon to once per scene (battle) would that be worth (balanced) Thick Hide 2?

[Antilles]

If you go here you'll find a list of all the origin options, and how many design points they're worth. There you can see what the abilites are priced, and what you can fiddle around with to still keep the species balanced. That said, I wouldn't mess around with it, as you often end up over-specializing. Eggs in one basket and all that... Thick Hide's nice, but I'd rather have flight and a breath weapon, and probably pick up decent armor and a magic item with DR on it as soon as possible instead.

[Kaptn_Lath]

If you go here you'll find a list of all the origin options, and how many design points they're worth. There you can see what the abilites are priced, and what you can fiddle around with to still keep the species balanced. That said, I wouldn't mess around with it, as you often end up over-specializing. Eggs in one basket and all that... Thick Hide's nice, but I'd rather have flight and a breath weapon, and probably pick up decent armor and a magic item with DR on it as soon as possible instead.

Ohhh Gold! Thank you, I like having bits and pieces to play with (grew up playing Lego too much I guess). Its more for thematic purposes. I just feel personally Drakes deserve Thick Hide more than Dwarves. Thank you for posting that link, I am trying build a setting based on FC. (Based on a thread at the CBG as to which comes first setting or system, I side with pick a system first and then a setting to match the system.)

[Glacialis]

Think of it this way.

It's not a sphere of fire, it's the Drake twisting and turning to hit everything with it's flame. Or spewing noxious fumes into the faces of creatures around them. Or arcing electricity around the Drake's body. Or or or...

FC leaves a lot of fiddlybits vague so the GM can decide how to run it. D&D 3 neutered the GM by having rules for EVERYTHING. Maybe centering the sphere on the Drake is intended, maybe not -- best to post in the FAQ thread if you want an official answer. Me? I'm okay with letting the GM decide.

[Krensky]

When one of the designers says it's intended, that's good enough for me.

Whether or not I or someone else likes the rule is a different matter, of course.

[Glacialis]

Totally missed that post. I still say there are numerous ways to explain why a drake wouldn't be affected by the normal use of their own breath weapon, regardless of the shape, without granting them a resistance stat.

[paddyfool]

Had some more thoughts on campaign properties - I'm going to split the homebrew I made up a bit, since there were two quite different bits to it, but with the recommendation that the first should be combined with either the second or the third:

Progressive lore mastery (permanent)
Mages add their caster level, and do not add their Wisdom attribute, to their spells known. 

Subtle magic (permanent)
The error rate on spellcasting checks increases by the spell level + 9 - the caster's Wisdom attribute (minimum 0).

Highly subtle magic (permanent)
Mages can only learn spells of a level less than or equal to their Wisdom attribute - 9.

[Kaptn_Lath]

Thanks paddyfool, I was thinking something was needed to counter balance the first one, as over the long run adding your caster level instead of wisdom score (is it really wisdom score as written not modifier?) would cause a caster to get more spells known than normal FC unless you had a 19 wisdom. Was also thinking maybe adding a requirement to the Spell Library feat that you must have a holding (minimum cost of 1 reputation, so still do able at lvl 1) I like the third one the best, or would both be needed to maintain balance?

[paddyfool]

The third campaign quality would make the second redundant, so no, you wouldn't need both.  And I think knowing more spells above level 15 or so, and less before 10, shouldn't break the balance too badly.

[Krensky]

You guys do realize that it renders tons of concepts unplayable and makes no sense that taking levels in a divine castring class benefits arcane casting, righrt?

[Kaptn_Lath]

You guys do realize that it renders tons of concepts unplayable and makes no sense that taking levels in a divine castring class benefits arcane casting, righrt?

What concepts would get messed up? I dont know as much about FC as you guys which is why I am asking these questions here, so they can be vetted by people who know the game. I would like to know so I can alter or change things to mitigate any ripple effects. And ya multiclassing with a divine class could be "problematic" unless the spell slots gained from a divine class has to be used on a divine spell. *hand wave*. I saw somewhere on these boards this quote:

"Fantasy Craft is a toolkit, not a sandbox"

Why cant i change the Roberts screwdriver for a Phillips, and my hacksaw to a jigsaw, if I think it will build the experience I am looking for, which is different than the experience you are looking? FC is great, and its modular as hell, which is why I want to play it, and play with it. I want to change some bits to suit a different flavor (just like different campaign settings, that offers different play styles and themes), people here are very helpful, but some seem a little resistant to the idea of modifying or changing parts of FC, but thats why I like FC, because of all the modular little bits and pieces that can be altered to fit my game table. I just dont want to make a change that alters FCs delicate balance between foes and party, and between difference species and classes.

Addendum: What about changing the Spell Library from spells = Lifestyle to spells = preudence? I don't see how having a high panache would help expand your library, but prudence could be investing resources, time, money into your library.

[Gentry]

I saw somewhere on these boards this quote:

"Fantasy Craft is a toolkit, not a sandbox"

Why cant i change the Roberts screwdriver for a Phillips, and my hacksaw to a jigsaw, if I think it will build the experience I am looking for, which is different than the experience you are looking?

There's nothing inherently wrong with messing around under the hood... after you've driven the car around for a while to get a sense of how it handles right off the lot. FC is a total stripdown and rebuild of the d20 system, done after the d20 system was bashed around for about a decade. I'd encourage, and I think this is where Krensky and other grognards on the boards here are coming from, that you give the game a whirl as written and see if what you think is strange is actually strange. You might be pleasantly surprised. 

Addendum: What about changing the Spell Library from spells = Lifestyle to spells = preudence? I don't see how having a high panache would help expand your library, but prudence could be investing resources, time, money into your library.

This is an interesting case in point. Mathematically speaking, having a high prudence means you save more money after each adventure--and that's it. It's entirely reflective of your character's ability to keep money he gets (it's not even "money management"; it's strictly "putting it in the bank rather than a stripper's g-string or your bookie's cashbox"). "Saving the money" as a concept runs counter to "could be investing resources, time, money into your library". To get the ability to do what you propose, it would make more sense to have a lower prudence, reflecting the notion that you spend every scrap of coin you get your hands on acquiring more mystical bric-a-brac, and therefore have less to spend on anything else. At that point you'd be looking to develop some sort of backwards-sliding scale, and then we're back to suspiciously THACO-looking charts and "good" negative numbers and other such madness from RPGs gone by.

As written, Spell Library encompasses your character's entire Lifestyle score. Not only is this mathematically better (as your total Lifestyle is very very likely to be higher than your specific Prudence score), it actually does a great job of reflecting your proposed notion of "a wizard's lifestyle often includes financing regular acquisition of magical crap." It does such a good job because it's a feat. Being a feat means you have to invest character options to get it, at the expense of some other option (in the natural course of the trade-offs that creating an RPG character entails). That Spell Library is a powerful option isn't a problem--Mages get few enough feats over the course of their career that they ought to get good bang for their buck. I encourage not fixing that which ain't broke.

And that brings us to a wider notion of FC's general power level. FC is a "heroic" game system. When asked once at a pre-release if FC classes would have 30 levels like D&D 4e, The response from the Crafty guys was "We've got 30 levels... we just skip the first 10." And that's not too terribly far off the mark. An FC character of any level has a menu of options and abilities that's about 5 levels higher than a comparably leveled 3.0/3.5 character. FC's a high octane system that allows characters to do some pretty butch things. I encourage you to explore some of that butch action at the table in play as soon as you can.