Questions of a new GM

[Bhurano]

Hi there,

this is the first forum I ever post something in. So far my friends an me had a blast with FC. Even people who normally don't like the social part of an RPG have incentives to explore this route with reputation and renown rewards. The combat is fast, flashy and heroic... since a long time. But during our five rounds of FC some questions cropped up.

1. Are Elves really that deadly? During a travel between two citys I decided to try out the elves as enemys. It was the first time my players got quite hopeless. They know that ambushes are nasty.. but elves they got cranked up to 11. I placed one elf with an long rifle and 6 melee fighters left and right the road. 2 of the seven protected the gunner - and were left out of the fight. During the surprise round one of the personal lieutenants got shot. The 4 melee fighters made their way to the road... and as they stepped out... they recognized that none of the PC's acted hostile...
Meanwhile at the table: My players tried to assess the situation tactical and decided that they are screwed. So I took what they thought and incorporated it into the game and twisted it for story purpose.
My players decided that elves with their superior senses are extremely deadly and superior to many enemies.
That day my players would have taken on giants, ogres and orcs... even whole hordes... but not an elven enemy whom they even outnumbered and who were less proficient as my PCs... Did I something wrong or everything right?

2. One of my players decided during our second round FC, that he needed a boost for his meager combat abilitys. Seeing that he isn't a subtle player he opted with his burglar for "Contempt". It made me wonder... and I ask for clarification. I know "Contempt" allows a player to hit standard characters if they miss him. And is my interpretation right, that it allows that once each time for any enemy that misses you in a given round?

3. My group played mostly RPG with experience buy systems, and so they complained - quite a lot - for the lack of choices. I tried to tell them that every level brings choices... but they didn't liked that approach. So to win them over and try FC we made a deal... more feats and therefore choices for them. We settled for 5 feats at each level. Quite much, but right now no problems with it. So my question: Might this be problematic or not?

4. Heritage Feats. I keep an vigilant eye on them and told my buddies upfront, that the more exotic ones will get some... special attention. Knowing that my players love and hate me for that part I implemented it in FC. I told them that especially Angelic, Devilish, Draconic and Faery Heritage - and their subsequent sucessors - are quite obvious and will draw attention - good or bad. One of my players decided to go the way of the angel. Knowing that he's going for the goody-two shoes he likes to play... I decided to give him a twist - food for thought, so to speak - and asked to choose from which god/half-god his angelic/godly blood comes. To make things more interesting I gave him only a rough outline of the gods/half-gods. He chose a "source" and I told him, that people think of him as an ANGEL OF VENGEANCE.. capital letters intended... One thing he knew beforehand, was the fact that his character would have a sign of his legacy on his forehead. He thought that wouldn't be enough and going for an even more obvious giveaway... crackling lines of lightning on his whole body... Going with it - and grinning while I did - I told him some of the sideeffects he has on his surrounding. Things like: He touches a weapon it starts to glow faintly or pulses with runes of lightning, if he's pissed crackling thunder is heard, his lightning lines are moving and such things... He thought he would be of totally cool, but recognized quite fast that many people tend to treat him like a nuclear device.. cool to be on his good side, but nobody wants on his bad side. He has also 2 Lieutenants who are also ANGELS OF VENGEANCE.

Same guy played an character who had also "Angelic Heritage" but came from a godess of life and plants. Sideeffects I brought in play for this character: all the ladies tried to be on his "good" side, he would be brought to women who were about to give birth - because no child, nor mother died when he was there; even dead plants like leaves returned to green for a short time where he walked; not to mention that he had a really green thumb; no tamed animal would attack him and such things. The part with the dead plants was especially funny as he went for "Angelic Legacy", the tavern owner was quite surprised as his mostly wooden tavern got some "life".

Is it too much or ok?

Ok... sorry for this long post. P.S.: Sorry for my spelling.
I would like to read your thoughts. Thanks for the help.

[Antilles]

Welcome to the forums Bhurano, always good to see new fans. And don't be afraid to ask questions, there are no stupid questions, just stupid answers .

1. Not really, though it appears elves are quite annoying/lethal at range (for another example, see the Burnt Offerings PbP). Not knowing anything about the party composition, I'm sort of tempted to say the players were overly cautious, especially seeing as long rifles have a fairly long load time, so he shouldn't have gotten off more than two or three shots. I'd say you did things right, a good ambush should leave the ambushed feeling like they're outnumbered and outgunned, even if that is not the case.

2. I think you're mixing feats there. Contempt allows a PC to make a free attack (a Standard Attack as a free action) once per round, a number of times per combat equal to their starting action dice. If you meant Combat Instincts, the player can, once per round, choose to make a free attack when an adjacent enemy attacks as misses. Both can only be used once per round, so it's up to the player to choose when to use them. (If the player wants to be able to cut down standard characters faster, direct him to the Cleave feats in the Melee Combat tree, it has a nice synergy with either of those feats).

3. 5 feats at every level? Yeah, that'll be a problem, all right. The PC's will be grossly overpowered by, oh, level 3, if not sooner, and the players will be so swamped in options they'll forget to use most of them. There's a Campaign Quality, Fast Feats, that gives players an extra feat every 3rd level instead of 4th, so you can see how much 5 feats every level overshoots the recommended power level for Fantasy Craft.
My suggestion would be to use the Campaign Qualities that give more/better magic items and more Reputation, and try to sell them on the idea of instead of improving their characters with XP, XP makes a baseline character that they can improve with Reputation/magic items. They'll still be overpowered, of course, but in a way you can compensate more easily for than by giving the PC's a load of feats every level.

4. I'm not saying you're wrong here, just that my perception of the heritage feats aren't 'you are the angel of (insert god x here)', more that 'my grandmother was seduced by an angel of (insert god x here) and since then my family line has had certain... exotic traits' sort of thing. Not saying your interpretation is wrong, it sounds a bit... over the top. If that's the kind of campaign/world you're running, cool, go with it.
I'd make a third feat, one that's basically 'you're in favor with (the source of your otherwoldlyness), and count yourself amongst its heralds on the world of men.' sort of deal, that gives certain benefits. Like, touching a weapon makes it glow with runes = he can cast Align Weapon at will sort of deal. Basically, you need to sit down and sort out how much of the extra cool is fluff (angel of life making childbirths successful is cool and flavorful, but probably not mechanically significant) and which parts are crunch (animals not attacking someone is a mechanical effect, albeit fairly small). If there's enough stuff that would have a mechanical effect, I'd make a feat outta it, if not, well, call it a minor benefit from having a cool background or something.
(Also, how did he get 2 Personal Lieutenants? Captain + feat?)

[TheTSKoala]

I think my head just imploded...

1.  While elves are a decent threat, I wouldn't say they're going to steamroll your entire party, especially if they're traditional NPCs.  Though, a good ambush is a nice tool, regardless of party make-up.  Keep 'em on their toes! 

2.  I don't have my book with me, so I can't double check that one.  But Antilles sounds on target.

3.  I read this.. and.. suddenly.. all that jumped in my head was.. "Engines!  Full Reverse!  Come hard to port!  Sound Collision!  BRACE FOR IMPACCCCTTT!" ...followed by the sounds of a sinking campaign.  Your campaign, your game and such.. however, I will warn you, I did 'fast feats', and it got a little crazy.  The soldier had enough weapon feats that he slowly became a one man army.  Keep in mind.. @ level 5, you'll have 25 feats.  That's more than a traditional lvl 40 soldier.  Should you continue that road, be forewarned, your party is going to be supermen.

4.  Your interpretation is definitely theatrical.  My game typically takes the direction of descendant vs. avatar, but, as long as you're okay with it, why not.

Overall, you're steering towards a very PC overpowered campaign.  If that's what you're going for, excellent.  If you want more traditional story, you may want to revamp the options a bit.

[ArawnNox]

Welcome to the boards. Good place to start posting for the first time, there's a really great community here.

1. Elves can negate some range penalties, yes, but I agree with Antilles, that the players were probably reacting to the perceived threat and not the actual danger level. Black Powder weapons have the highest damage code in the book and a shot from that can be really scary, and if they're unaware of the long load time, then it can seem quite daunting. I do applaud your fast thinking in incorporating the player's more or less surrender into the story.

2. Antilles already covered this perfectly.

3. I come from a long history of "Experience Buy" systems as well. Fading Suns and Storyteller (World of Darkness/Vampire) systems. Someone on the forums proposed a "gain abilities as you level" system, but I don't remember how sound it was and it got wonky for mages, but it could be something to look in to. I think it's somewhere in the License To Improvise board.

Five feats per level just sounds.... frightening... to me. I mean, that's waaaaaay faster than even the XP Buy systems and in those the character in no way grows that fast. That's getting the full line of a single weapon feat tree in one go. I know there's no way I could keep track of all that, let alone fit it on my character sheet. That, and what would you do after a certain point? You'd run out of options that fit your character.

Fast feats is a good option, but I must correct Antilles, its a feat at level 1, 2, and every other level. So you get 11 feats over 20 levels, and that's not counting feats granted by class options. In the Burnt Offerings PbP, this is active and it'll give me plenty of options to round out my character concept, outside of feats needed for making my Sage more combat effective.

4. Are you familiar with DnD 3.5 or other reiterations? It's my understanding that the Heritage feats represent the "Planetouched", Aasimar for Angelic, Teifling for Devilish, etc. The Legacies are upgrading them to their Half- counterpart. It's more like hints of the exotic (aside from the gore attack granted to devilish, that's a pretty clear indicator). Now, when reaching Legacy, then your proposed ideas would make far more sense. For Heritage, I'd maybe dial them back a bit, but I think they're really cool ideas.

[aegis]

If you want your players to have access to more feats than what a normal progression should normally provide, don't hand them for free! Make them buy it! A good way to do so is by spending time and Reputation: 50 points per feat should be OK. But it's still going to be far from the 5/level you suggest. 

[Bhurano]

Hello,

great replies folks. and I like the food for thought you gave me.
Ok... I try to answer everything step by step.

1. Ok, elves are not as deadly as anybody thought... they just got the drop on them. Good to know.

It's a steam-punky world and they liked the thoughts of guns and magic. So they got guns... they know that most people can get their hands on standard guns (if you are wealthy), but some are modified with chambers like revolvers... At that moment I didn't thought about it... because I had planned the encounter beforehand... and used just a the long rifle out of the book. So, my bad... for forgetting that part.

During the attack my group had 1 Saurian Burglar + Animal Partner, 1 Human Captain (with Angelic Heritage) + 2 Personal Lieutenants and 1 Human Assassin (who likes guns way to much) and for trying out magic - and because they asked for assistance - I handed them an Elf Mage. So that is for now the party composition. They were armed mostly with melee weapons + shields and most had pistols as sidearms. Two even had grenades with them. At least 2 flash and 2 to 4 explosive grenades. The complete black powder stuff had been taken from some really unlucky guardsmen - I hadn't seen that one coming... the biggest surprise since I began playing RPGs.

2. Yeah, I mixed up feats there... and read the text wrong... ooouccch.

3. Hehe, the five feats per level are totally over the top... all right... that will be rectified.  Fast Feats I look at you.

4. Hmm, the responses to that were really interesting. I like food for thought.

I played D&D 3.5 and the Aasimar and Tieflings were never interesting... But in FC the Heritage and Legacy Feats rock.
I took the route of thought, that the Heritage Feat isn't the biggest deal... ok, people may look at you funny or spit before you... but that's it... for most.
But the Legacy feats are big business... I mean (possible) wings and other abilities... and the fact that these should (?) be fairly obvious... even without wings.
And I like to add in the human viewpoints... and normally most (!) humans wouldn't like the thought that their neighbour is a freakin', talkin' flamethrower  who could incinerate them if he got pissed... on the other hand another species might like that thought like nobody's business (orcs, anybody?) and others would run like hell (rootwalkers  ).

I have to admit that I still build the world where we play in. Bit by bit. I am still tinkering with different ideas, and round by round anything got's more rounded out. And one of my first ideas was that the gods acted like the wouldn't care (and who knows, maybe it is true) but fight with pawns (the poor bastards with heritage and legacy feats) more or less obvious. So the idea with these (mostly) fluff powers got born.

@Antilles
Your idea with a third feat for some "special effects" is quite interesting... that might be a possibility. Going to work at that... it might take some time.

@TSKoala
With theatrical you mean like in a movie? If not, please clarify. Sorry, its not my native language. If you mean what I think... yeah, some of my players are suckers for style... and they like every bit of it... so sometimes I give them just a bit more and normally they make great RPG out of it. And some of my players need these little fiddly bits to get a better hang on their character. It is nice to read that there is something special about your character but if there is no effect from your environment for what your character is, most forget to play that part  or use it indifferently. So I tried to walk this path... quite obvious, yupp. But it is also a tool to help a player who's not so imaginative or a bit shy... and as above I am inclined to take antilles advice and sort some things out and make a third feat. If I have something handy, I'm going to post it.

@ArawnNox
We played D&D 3.x, but mostly not for long - there were several reason why it wouldn't work for us. Mostly the relation fighter and wizard in a long term play... In FC the Soldier gets his spotlight and he can keep up with the wizzies... the whole system is quite elegant and fluid. Back to topic: I tried consciously to avoid the comparison between D&D 3.x and FC... maybe I got carried away a bit. But your idea of dialing these fluff abilities back I bit... I'll buy that and do so, and make - as stated above - a third feat to play them up.

@aegis
I'am so going that way... you solved a possible problem before I had time to think about it.

Thank you, all of you, for the hearty reception and the constructive replies.  I like how your opinions gave me another point of view, something that is really appreciated. So thanks again. I will get to work on some things and change some others.

[Bhurano]

@Antilles

sorry, I overlooked one of your questions, sorry. I allowed him to take 2 "Personal Lieutenants" with the tradeoff that he won't take "Animal Partner".

I don't think that this will be gamebreaking. Instead of 1 Personal Lieutenant and 1 possible Animal Partner, he has 2 Personal Lieutenant. For now I don't see a problem with that.

On the other hand it has created quite it's own dynamic. One of his Lieutenants got killed and right now he is seeking a way to enter the realm of the gods to return that one to life - seems he likes his henchmen quite a bit. So I heard a Sup-plot ringing at my door and ran with it.

[TheTSKoala]

@TSKoala
With theatrical you mean like in a movie? If not, please clarify. Sorry, its not my native language. If you mean what I think... yeah, some of my players are suckers for style... and they like every bit of it... so sometimes I give them just a bit more and normally they make great RPG out of it. And some of my players need these little fiddly bits to get a better hang on their character. It is nice to read that there is something special about your character but if there is no effect from your environment for what your character is, most forget to play that part  or use it indifferently. So I tried to walk this path... quite obvious, yupp. But it is also a tool to help a player who's not so imaginative or a bit shy... and as above I am inclined to take antilles advice and sort some things out and make a third feat. If I have something handy, I'm going to post it.

Yes, for lack of better terminology.  Theatrical, dramatic, imaginative, "Michael Bay-esque".  (What's your native language?  I can try to better phrase it.  [or.. more specifically, my co-worker can. lol])

[Sheena-Tiger]

Well hello there!

first i not planned to register, but reading through our GM's posts and the answers he got i just had to.

@TheTSKoala
His native tongue is german as is mine, though, both of us are quite good with english... still as it is not our native tongue we miss some meanings and so on.

Now for the main reason to register... Our dear GM Bhurano forgot to mention something about the ambush.
We traveled along a road and at both sides was forest. The shot was fired from so far away, that only one of us succeeded at a notice-check since the sound of the shot was ... maybe a bit louder then a whisper.
So we had no clue from where the shot was fired (aside of that it was the right side) since no enemy was visible through the hilly forest.
Some time later 3 elves in armor with spears and shields left the shrubs in a mini-phalanx.

To sum it up, we had no clue how many more elves were hidden within the forest but at least one sniper hidden and 3 enemies in better armor then most of us against us. There could have been 2 or 3 more snipers hidden and shoot while others are loading... without clear sight of the enemies taking action is hard.
Not to mention... at the end of the encounter we got aware of 3 more armed elves on the other side of the road and only our 'assasin' had black powder feats and more then 3 or 4 shots for his guns... while none other was even proficient with guns or at least hurled weapons (for those salvaged grenades)

[Bhurano]

Hi there,

seems a friend has answered your question, before me.

What he writes is how it happened - he missed some minor details. Nothing wild. As I had written the whole encounter got changed, as I witnessed that they were afraid of taking action. At that point I used the "mini-phalanx" (nice term buddy  ) to let the story go on.

What he got definitive right is the fact that only one could determine from where the bullet came. I had to eyeball the fact that the shooter was quite away (that the elf hit was more luck, than skill - because he had only a threatlevel of 2) and had to guess if the bullet moved faster than sound. I decided that it was quite likely and went with it... so it seemed to me, that the sound would be hard to hear when it would count - just before the impact.

I need definitely write-ups of our rounds to remember these little fiddly bits.

[Catodon]

I find a audio recording is a good way of taking notes if your player's don't mind. Many MP3 players can do this.

[Bhurano]

@Catodon

nice idea, but for now I will stick to taking notes.  The idea with the recording is nice but I would need to write it down anyways. And listening to 4 - 7 hours  of gameplay to get everything right and written down... a bit too much for me...
My players will have to ferret out mistakes or things I got wrong.
They are quite motivated to point these out ... I don't know why.

[Sheena-Tiger]

thats easy, you are the only one of us who makes mistakes :p

[TheTSKoala]

@TheTSKoala
His native tongue is german as is mine, though, both of us are quite good with english... still as it is not our native tongue we miss some meanings and so on.

Ah! Okay.  Easy enough.  I know some languages just really don't translate English well, so I've become accustom to translating what I want to convey to their native tongue rather than have them trying to understand mine.    Welcome to the boards!

On the notes thing.. when I GC (typically in Spycraft & Sci-fi's) I have a little house rule.  Everyone keeps notes.  If someone is missing some notes, and something gets overwritten, you have to let it lie unless its in the notebook.

Normally, its not a problem.. but there are one or two times I brought a bad guy back from the grave because they had written "Bad guy killed" and couldn't remember which one. 

[Catodon]

@Catodon

nice idea, but for now I will stick to taking notes.  The idea with the recording is nice but I would need to write it down anyways. And listening to 4 - 7 hours  of gameplay to get everything right and written down... a bit too much for me...
My players will have to ferret out mistakes or things I got wrong.
They are quite motivated to point these out ... I don't know why.

I generally don't transcribe the whole recording but listening to it on the tram on the way into work a day or so before the game refreshes my memory. Also listerning to it while I'm working on the next sessions adventure sparks the occassional idea.

P.s. English is my first language, it's just my spelling is bad.