FantasyCraft not stand-alone?!

[Desertpuma]

Big reason is some people are simulationist and need every rule covered so they can be a rules lawyer/rapist.

[Gatac]

Golden Dragon: What about Mutants & Masterminds? Classless d20.

Gatac

[Krensky]

The other thing is, a 'true' generic system generally needs to be more or less classless and skill based then any d20 game is.

I think that d20 can do this, it's just that no implementation to date has yet to do it. I love my icosahedral dice. That's one of the reasons I like d20.

Bah!  Humbug!  3d6!

[Desertpuma]

I had a friend of mine build an enormous disadvantage once in GURPS. He made a dependent mute old man with one eye, no legs, who he carried in his backpack rig so that the old man could fire behind him as he ran using a light crossbow. He received 575 points as an add-on for his PC.

[GlassJaw]

My favorite "generic" class-based d20 ruleset is Grim Tales.  Extremely versatile, customizable, and works well for a LOT of different styles of play.

[OverNinja]

I had a friend of mine build an enormous disadvantage once in GURPS. He made a dependent mute old man with one eye, no legs, who he carried in his backpack rig so that the old man could fire behind him as he ran using a light crossbow. He received 575 points as an add-on for his PC.

ROFLMAO!

[Krensky]

I had a friend of mine build an enormous disadvantage once in GURPS. He made a dependent mute old man with one eye, no legs, who he carried in his backpack rig so that the old man could fire behind him as he ran using a light crossbow. He received 575 points as an add-on for his PC.

Which is exactly why disadvantages the GM doesn't make every player that are supposed to be capped at 40.

[Desertpuma]

The GM bet my friend he couldn't get more than 100 points and if he did he could keep the points. .... He quite obviously won the bet.

[Crafty_Pat]

I would add another ground to avoid a generic, core rulebook: blandness. At least with the Spycraft rulebook, I go in thinking espionage, and that gives me something to apply the rules to. This inspiration for imagination makes the rulebook a better read. It gives extra relevance to the character options given. It gives us a starting point.

This is one of the reasons for our two-book print model, where the second book - usually a "Toolkit Setting" that offer a genre rules set and an accompanying setting - tweaks and overrides the base Spycraft flavor. We feel it lets us have a generic rules set without losing the flavor needed to sell the core game on its own.

[Krensky]

The GM bet my friend he couldn't get more than 100 points and if he did he could keep the points. .... He quite obviously won the bet.

Really?  Suckers bet. 
Never challenge a player like that in a points based system with disadvantages.  It only encourages weird crap like that. 

[foproy]

aces and eights is a pretty fun quasai d20 system as is paranoia.

[Forcegypsy]

Thread Necromancy...
Arise!

 If you've got a minute or two check this out. It's kinda cool to see the progression of concept from then to now.

And then follow to here, for some more historical context.

[jolt]

Maybe to the designers it seemed like a progression but for me it was more like a spontaneous nuclear explosion. 

I came here fleeing the madness that I perceived to be 4E.  I was attracted by what I heard about FC and was sold on Spellbound.  Then Mastercraft came along and all those things got pounded with a meat tenderizer and thrown into a locked freezer.  Announcements like "Expect big news soon!" and "We're about 80% done!" brought me to laughter and tears at the same time.

I have few problems with Mastercraft as a concept except in how it was sprung so suddenly and it completely torpedoed all my conversion and campaign ideas as I was no longer being given the tools I needed to go forward and years later, I'm still waiting. 

Much as I hope Crafty success in its endeavors, I'm at a stage in my life where I can't wait 3-4+ years for material to come out.  I can no longer buy games where I need a dozen splatbooks for it to feel complete.  I can't buy a new edition of a game every three years just so the developer can keep its rpg current with its ccg.  I can't risk buying story driven games that go on for years of development only to be dropped with no conclusion because, on a whim, the developer got oooh'd and aaaah'd by a new shiny.  I can't keep buying a new edition of a game with just enough changes to make it hard to use older edition stuff because the owner of the game can't keep it with one publisher long enough to develop it.

The light at the end of the tunnel doesn't have the appeal that it did even just a few years ago and too many modern design/publishing philosophies (there are exceptions) have just left me feeling bitter.

jolt

[Desertpuma]

I came here fleeing the madness that I perceived to be 4E.  I was attracted by what I heard about FC and was sold on Spellbound.  Then Mastercraft came along and all those things got pounded with a meat tenderizer and thrown into a locked freezer.  Announcements like "Expect big news soon!" and "We're about 80% done!" brought me to laughter and tears at the same time.

I have few problems with Mastercraft as a concept except in how it was sprung so suddenly and it completely torpedoed all my conversion and campaign ideas as I was no longer being given the tools I needed to go forward and years later, I'm still waiting. 

Much as I hope Crafty success in its endeavors, I'm at a stage in my life where I can't wait 3-4+ years for material to come out.  I can no longer buy games where I need a dozen splatbooks for it to feel complete.  I can't buy a new edition of a game every three years just so the developer can keep its rpg current with its ccg.  I can't risk buying story driven games that go on for years of development only to be dropped with no conclusion because, on a whim, the developer got oooh'd and aaaah'd by a new shiny.  I can't keep buying a new edition of a game with just enough changes to make it hard to use older edition stuff because the owner of the game can't keep it with one publisher long enough to develop it.

jolt

I cannot speak directly for the Crafty guys but I know they learned from the mistake of stating a release date only to have it be changed because of the publishing company.

However, in the process of working on FC, they realized that MasterCraft is the better solution. As for the game feeling complete, you only need the main game book for FantasyCraft in order to play the game. That book is out currently so you can buy it. The only other book you mentioned being interested in was Spellbound which, last I heard, was supposed to be out by March at the latest.

[Catodon]

I was oblivious during all of this history...
However FC core book is a stand alone game with massive flexibility and options. The core book could easily support almost any fantasy setting indefinately. All other releases will just be cream.
This isn't a off the cuff fanboy rant. I've been in the hobby almost three decades and IMO FC core book is easily in the top 10% of games.