Uping the drama in combat

[Morgenstern]

Ok, trying this again with increased clarity and option paralysis-reduction.

You Bet Your Life: Once per adventure, you may declare that you have bet your life on the outcome of this scene. You have 60 seconds - REAL TIME - to choose a single base class or expert class you qualify for. You immediately gain 2 levels of that class until the end of the scene (including all bonuses, skill points, vitality points and class abilities) You do NOT gain Career levels and this may elevate your total number of Class Levels above 20. While you have bet your life, you can die a real and final death and the GMs must activate all threats against you at no cost. Have fun storming the castle! If you survive, your reputation reward for this adventure is halved (round up).

[Mister Andersen]

What about simply letting people grab a gamebreaker of their choice? They're the pinacle of a class, yet most people don't tend to actually get their hands on them.

[Morgenstern]

I don't see "I'd like to auto-crit the big bad 13 levels early" as leading to dramatic scenarios.

I've got no beef with a 12th level Soldier doing that in a desperate moment, but 1 level courtiers? Not so much.

[Mister Andersen]

One level of tough rather negates that, while still letting the character get in that lucky shot that though not fatal opens the foe up to the rest of the team.

[paddyfool]

Morganstern,

I'm sorry if I upset you by trying to come up with a simplified variant.  I really do like this idea, but I've gamed with fairly new or generally unconfident players and share Sletchman's concerns.

+2 to skills falls far short of the idea of taking two levels of keeper and loading up on some comparitively new skill you desperately need. Addng BAB for two levels is great IF you were taking Soldier, but for some classes skill points are the point, and I'd like this option to have meaning outside of blunt force trauma .

I confess, I did build my version with either combat or spellcasting primarily in mind.  How about "you may gain your choice of an untyped +2 bonus to all skills in which you have maximum ranks, or a +1 bonus to all skills in which you are proficient" to make the simple version fairer for keepers and other highly skilled individuals?


EDIT: Actually, what the heck, they can have the skill points (to make the difference between taking those extra levels in Keeper, say, rather than Soldier).  "You gain class abilities, BAB, vitality, caster level, skill points and spell points as if you had just taken 2 levels in a class of your choice,  your starting action dice increase by one size and you gain 2 extra starting action dice."

My favourite potential use of this would be to snag the Burglar's gamebreaker early.  As in "where the heck did he get those from?"

EDIT 2: To sum up how this would speed things up - with no new feats (other than those granted by classes) or spells known, you reduce analysis paralysis; and with no new attribute boosts, save boosts, defense boosts or initiative boosts you reduce calculation.  Hmm... now I put it that way, perhaps the action dice boost isn't enough...

[Morgenstern]

One level of tough rather negates that, while still letting the character get in that lucky shot that though not fatal opens the foe up to the rest of the team.

*shrug* Ultimately a one-time super-action action and a sustained, but much more moderate set of bonuses contribute to different types of scenarios playing out, and the sustained benefit scenarios are the ones I'm trying to encourage.

[Mister Andersen]

Rather than something strictly mechanical, what about a more narrativist approach, using something like the edges and hindrences approach of games such as Deadlands and Serenity?

[Morgenstern]

Morgenstern,

I'm sorry if I upset you by trying to come up with a simplified variant.  I really do like this idea, but I've gamed with fairly new or generally unconfident players and share Sletchman's concerns.

Itsallright. I screamed at the screen for a while. Then my roommate and I went and got burgers and commiserated about game-mastery for a bit. Alternatives slowly began to percolate through my gear box. Most likely I'll end up with two similar-scale benefits packages: the one you see now (2 levels in a single class) and something simpler/faster for people daunted by such a prospect. At first blush something along th lines of "you gain 2 additional feats from any one tree, and a +2 bonus to all rolls of any sort until the end of the scene." Its still got some picking and it cost the character some vitality (which raises other questions I may eventually side-step), but it's a sort of a normalized two levels bonus. Its possible I'll get to a point where the fixed bonus package does enough of what I want that the free levels can be phased out. *sigh*

My favourite potential use of this would be to snag the Burglar's gamebreaker early.  As in "where the heck did he get those from?"

I tend to be less concerned about a character taking 2 more levels of a class he already has because on the whole the player is likely to be familiar with how his class opperates - you don't ussually have a 12th level mono-class character without having already thought about what'll happen the day you get that sweet-sweet 14th level ability .

[Morgenstern]

Rather than something strictly mechanical, what about a more narrativist approach, using something like the edges and hindrences approach of games such as Deadlands and Serenity?

You came to the wrong designer for that kinda touchy-feely crap .

[paddyfool]

Itsallright. I screamed at the screen for a while. Then my roommate and I went and got burgers and commiserated about game-mastery for a bit. Alternatives slowly began to percolate through my gear box. Most likely I'll end up with two similar-scale benefits packages: the one you see now (2 levels in a single class) and something simpler/faster for people daunted by such a prospect. At first blush something along th lines of "you gain 2 additional feats from any one tree, and a +2 bonus to all rolls of any sort until the end of the scene." Its still got some picking and it cost the character some vitality (which raises other questions I may eventually side-step), but it's a sort of a normalized two levels bonus. Its possible I'll get to a point where the fixed bonus package does enough of what I want that the free levels can be phased out. *sigh*

I'm actually increasingly unconcerned about the potential delay (although I might allow a whole 120 seconds).  The worst of the analysis paralysis delays might come from new spells known, new feats, new tricks etc.  And if they haven't remembered to add on one or another obscure bonus, they don't get it.  Simple enough, really.

I tend to be less concerned about a character taking 2 more levels of a class he already has because on the whole the player is likely to be familiar with how his class opperates - you don't ussually have a 12th level mono-class character without having already thought about what'll happen the day you get that sweet-sweet 14th level ability .

Oh, I wouldn't be concerned about it in the slightest.  It just leads to a necessity for some fun storytelling-away of where the items came from, and where they went afterwards.

[Morgenstern]

I'm sorry if I upset you by trying to come up with a simplified variant.  I really do like this idea, but I've gamed with fairly new or generally unconfident players and share Sletchman's concerns.

I want to dig into the psychology of this for a moment, since how things really happen at the table is a primary driving force in my design goals. Since betting your life is essentially deliberately pulling out a sharp-bit and cutting a hole in a very carefuly slung safety net, climbing through, and launching yourself into freefall above the black abyss of death on the off-chance you can catch a thermal and end up doing a double backflip back on to the net... is it something you really want new players thinking they need to do?

I mean, I can see the occasional bravado player taking his swing at this because they know what they're doing (or they're about to go on a trip for 2 months and want a final exit scene), but if newbie player X somehow ends up the only guy in a position to make a difference, and somebody says "well, you could bet your life..." I guess I HOPE that the rest of the table of (more experienced) players would try to be supportive in working out a decent if not optimal class to suggest he grabs.

[Morgenstern]

Aside from possible variations in the buff provided by betting your life, and needing to fold together the rally point information, do folks have any other concerns they want to raise before I script this up for Pa'senna?

[spinningdice]

How about adding a line that you don't have to choose all your options immediately. Give it some of the functionality of I can Swim, also removes some of the option paralysis, take the feat if you need it, otherwise leave it in case you need something later, same with skills and more flexible character options?