War in Iraq... justified?

[MilitiaJim]

I'm not sure why there can be any debate on the morality of killing Saddam Hussein.  He personally murdered, and on his orders tens of thousands were murdered.  I would argue that it was immoral not to hunt him down in '91.

It is not a law that prevents US forces from assassinating foreign heads of state, it is an Executive Order.  Easy come, easy go.


The post invasion planning needed work and needed State to not get in pissing contests with DoD.

Democracy certainly was sold in favor of friendly strongmen.  And we should have stopped supporting them when the Cold War ended.

[OverNinja]

United States while not in a state of declared war it has enacted two laws that give the President powers equal to the state of war.
 - Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Terrorists
 - Public Law No: 107-243 (authorization for Iraq War)

These enable the President to use the Armed Forces of the United States "as he determines to be necessary and appropriate" to "defend the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq; and enforce all relevant United Nations Security Council Resolutions regarding Iraq."

The Authorization granted the President the authority to use all "necessary and appropriate force" against those whom he determined "planned, authorized, committed or aided" the September 11th attacks, or who harbored said persons or groups.

Executive Order 12333 states that "No person employed by or acting on behalf of the United States Government shall engage in, or conspire to engage in, assassination."

[agent oni]

Are you guys sure we didn't declare war on Iraq?

I thought we officially declared war as Desert Storm was on full swing.

[MilitiaJim]

Yes.  And then there was a 14 year armistice that ended with the commencement of Operation Iraqi Freedom.

[Krensky]

The United States has not had a Declaration of War since World War II.

[agent oni]

Yes.  And then there was a 14 year armistice that ended with the commencement of Operation Iraqi Freedom.

Well, OK then...

My memory was a bit fuzzy.  I just  vaguely remember the argument in the media and Congress passing a resolution.

Krensky and ON-thanks for clarification

[MilitiaJim]

Desert Shield and Desert Storm were, like Korea, Police Actions? 

[Psion]

I was really, really mad about this when I first read the article.

I was really mad when we didn't find any during and following the major conflict. And then news of sexed up intel from the pentagon after.

This... just another for the pile at this point.

Saddam need to be gone, but ultimately I consider it a bad move. Very ill considered. Did Saddam need to go? Yeah. But is life really better for Iraqis now? I'm not so sure.

And strategically, I tend to think it made things much easier for Iran.

[MilitiaJim]

But is life really better for Iraqis now? I'm not so sure.

Yes.  Life is Better.

Two points about the chemical weapons:  Saddam fooled his own officers:  Senior officers in the Iraqi army believed other brigades but theirs were getting the chemical artillery shells.  And at least one IED, that I know of, failed to inflict many casualties because it was a chemical and not explosive shell.  Because it wasn't fired from an artillery piece, it didn't spin and the chemicals didn't mix, so it killed half a dozen people instead of dozens.

[Mister Andersen]

It should have been under Clinton that they took out Saddam -- his regime had its problems but it was nowhere near as venal and corrupt as what's happened under George W -- but sadly ol' Stormin' Norman felt he lacked the mandate to do so

[Wolverine]

Yes.  Life is Better.

Unless you like things like, you know, electricity.

Sure, the death squads may be gone, but it's not like everything is now magically happy and fluffy again. Look at what's happening in the Middle East right now. It may not be smooth or ultimately end up with the sort of goverment the West may want, but it really is government by the people.

More importantly, it's mostly going ahead without obvious international interference. Imagine if it was revealed that foreign nations were backing the Tea Party movement, or had funded one or more political parties or Presidential candidates in America. All hell would break lose. The same is true in the Middle East.

[MilitiaJim]

I'm going to go ahead and put a lack of death squads and rape squads above electricity, but that's just me, your mileage may vary.

It is also common knowledge that Iran has been backing al-Sadr's group.

Also worth mentioning is the draw that US forces were to all the al-Quaida jerkbags in region.  Rather than trying to come here and cause mischief, they went into Iraq and got their asses handed to them regularly.  Better there than here.  And their constant murder of fellow Muslims crushed support for the "movement."

[glimmerrat]

I work with several Iraqi Kurds that hadn't forgiven him for what he did to them in the 80s.

I mean, 100,000 civilian casualties including children, and 4000 villages razed? One guy has some pretty horrific burn scars covering his body from the neck down, and the other has breathing issues due to the (alleged) use of chemical weapons in his village.

They couldn't give a shit whether the quality of life of the average Iraqi has improved, but I agree with them when they say that the man and the regime responsible needed to pay a tithe of blood for these crimes.

[MilitiaJim]

Saddam did get a fair trial before he was justly hanged.

[glimmerrat]

Saddam did get a fair trial before he was justly hanged.

Corrected that for you... 

I doubt the guy could've got an impartial trial anywhere on the planet.