Re: Holdings

[DefenderofFuture]

Hi everyone!  Fantasy Craft is awesome!

Just a few questions on holdings, please redirect me if these have been answered:

1. Extra Holdings Feat: is the holding granted by this feat limited by the higher of the player's panache or prudence?  I'm assuming no, because otherwise there seems to be little utility in it.  Same with the Extra Contacts feat. 

2. Upgrading Holdings: Obviously there are upgrades listed in the Core Book, but how would one simulate increasing the scale of an already existing holding, e.g. a PC uses his increased reputation to get granted additional land surrounding his estate? 

[VisualStatic]

1.  I would say yes, since the Rep cost is variable in the feat, up to 30 rep cost.  If it was a fixed 30 rep cost, then I would rule that it by-passes the limits.

2.  Are you talking, something like, he spent 15 on a small farm, and then wants to spend the difference to get a large farm at 30?  Or he spent 15 to get the small farm, now is spending 30 to get a large farm.   If its the second option, then he as 2 holdings.   If its the first, I"m not sure I would allow that type of upgrade.

Just my 2 cents.

[Krensky]

1. Actually, it says 30 or less. If a player takes the feat, they get a holding with a value of 30 Rep or less regardless of their limits. That's what a feat does. Same with Extra Contact.

2. Have him pay the difference.

[Doublebond]

1.  I would say yes, since the Rep cost is variable in the feat, up to 30 rep cost.  If it was a fixed 30 rep cost, then I would rule that it by-passes the limits.

I would say it's the latter. It has the current wording to allow one to have a holding through the feat of any cost up to 30 reputation. Otherwise the system would be prohibiting the player from making anything cheaper, which makes no sense.

"Yeah, you get a free holding, but it can't be any cheaper than this amount for no reason other than because I say so."

[Morgenstern]

The feats give you a starting version. After that you can buy up, same as if you bought the intial seed with Rep directly.

Holdings are actually pretty easy to expand - they are 1 Rep per person they can house, so you can inch them upwards in as little as 1 point increments.

[pawsplay]

1. Extra Holdings Feat: is the holding granted by this feat limited by the higher of the player's panache or prudence?  I'm assuming no, because otherwise there seems to be little utility in it. 

A Courtier, or someone with the right Specialty, or someone with a high Cha, can make use of it. I'm pretty sure that in many cases, Extra Holding nets you a Scale 1 holding, with plenty of Rep left over to build a moat around it.

[DefenderofFuture]

A Courtier, or someone with the right Specialty, or someone with a high Cha, can make use of it. I'm pretty sure that in many cases, Extra Holding nets you a Scale 1 holding, with plenty of Rep left over to build a moat around it.

That's a very good point, and essentially answers the question I had.  Still one issue though: the Cloak & Dagger campaign of the AC gives the 'Citizen' specialty 'Extra Holding' as a feat.  Unless every citizen at level one lives in an outhouse with spikes on it, a moat surrounding it, and 2 carpenters living in it, that seems to suggest the 30 rep can go toward the scale.  Maybe it's just expected that you take this speciality as a high-lifestyle character?

The feats give you a starting version. After that you can buy up, same as if you bought the intial seed with Rep directly.

Holdings are actually pretty easy to expand - they are 1 Rep per person they can house, so you can inch them upwards in as little as 1 point increments.

That was my assumption, I just wasn't sure if there was a specific rule for balancing/otherwise that said this was a no-no. 

[Gentry]

As Cloak & Dagger is presenting a quasi-Rome, the idea of being a Citizen *is* a big deal. So you're right, this is generally a specialty that's going to be most sought after by somebody who's going to build a high-lifestyle character in the first place.

[VisualStatic]

As Cloak & Dagger is presenting a quasi-Rome, the idea of being a Citizen *is* a big deal. So you're right, this is generally a specialty that's going to be most sought after by somebody who's going to build a high-lifestyle character in the first place.

Definately a case for having the Safe House feat too.

[ludomastro]

1. Extra Holdings Feat: is the holding granted by this feat limited by the higher of the player's panache or prudence?  I'm assuming no, because otherwise there seems to be little utility in it.  Same with the Extra Contacts feat.

Mileage will vary; however, at my table you would get a holding (or contact) that bypassed the normal rules.  After all, that is what feats tend to do.  That is to say feats tend to bypass normal rules.

2. Upgrading Holdings: Obviously there are upgrades listed in the Core Book, but how would one simulate increasing the scale of an already existing holding, e.g. a PC uses his increased reputation to get granted additional land surrounding his estate? 

I would say that as long as there is a reasonable story explanation, there is no reason that you couldn't upgrade from holding X to Y.  In your example, perhaps the elderly couple who lived next door died and left it to the hero.  Or perhaps he "bought it" (with reputation, of course) from a young couple who gave up / escaped from farming.

Unfortunately, I would not let someone gradually increase the size of the holding at a 1:1 ratio as - to me - that way lies silliness.  "Ayup.  Built this whole castle with me bare hands.  That I did, that I did."

However, if they were willing to spend their downtime check earning reputation - representing sweat equity, and lost opportunity - I would consider it.

[DefenderofFuture]

Yeah, I assumed the Citizen thing was meant to be a Roman-style citizen, with lots of power and wealth. 

Thanks for the help, guys!  Too bad I haven't had luck with a regular gaming group lately to give all sorts of pretty houses in-game.