Mass Craft PDF

[Sletchman]

I've been wanting to have a look at this, but the download link on the first post isn't working.  Is there another link I'm missing somewhere?

PM me your email and I'll email you it if you want?

[Grimace]

Scanned this briefly, very nicely done!

[glimmerrat]

So, thinking about updating Mass Craft for ME3, and converting completely to Mastercraft, leaving SC 2.0 as far behind as possible. I think so far I need to add:

Omni-Blades: Melee weapon; alternatively can be used with an Ambush to add +1d6 SA damage
Weapon Upgrades: A grand total of 25 upgrades (5 per weapon category)

New Pistols: M-77 Paladin, M-358 Talon, Arc Pistol, N7 Eagle, Scorpion
New SMGs: M-25 Hornet, N7 Hurricane
New Assault Rifles: M-37 Falcon, M-55 Argus, M-99 Saber, N7 Valkyrie
New Sniper Rifles: M-13 Raptor, M-90 Indra, N7 Valiant
New Shotguns: M-11 Wraith, AT-12 Raider, N7 Crusader
New Heavy Weapons: M-560 Hydra, Cobra Missile Launcher, Sync Laser

And this is just for starters.

[Krensky]

You forgot:

Assault Rifles: Phaseton, Particle Rifle, Chakram Launcher
Sniper Rifles: Black Widow, Javelin
Heavy Weapons: Geth Spitfire

Armor: N7 Defender, Rhode Island Reckoners armor

[Sletchman]

All curious what your thoughts are on the powers that dramatically changed between ME2 and 3?  I've mostly been playing multiplayer (picking up 20 minutes here or there is far easier for my current schedule then plowing into a 50 hour campaign mode), which happily has let me play with a good variety of the new powers (but also miss a few).

The big changes, powers wise:
Stasis: You can harm them (in fact it's a good tactic: Stasis + Headshot).  Also Stasis Bubble (OMG STASIS BUBBLE!!).
Tech Armour/Barrier/Fortification: Perminant - detonates by choice, slows power use.
Biotic/Tech Detonations: The former existed in previous games, but never as widely as in 3.  Also not modelled in Mass Craft (not in "Biotic Explosion" form I mean).

I'm also thinking of the 5/6th tier evolutions.  My gut tells me that keeping going with the chain is the wrong path (Basics < Mastery < Supremacy < Transcendency[?] < [??]) because it'll just be needlessly complex and too high an investiment for the return.  Perhaps this might be a use for another mechanic I've been pondering, but I'm not sure yet.

I'd also change the "Charge" tree into the "Biotic Charge" tree, same with the power.  Just for clarity - "I charge" "Ok that's a run action..." "No I mean I charge" "Right.".

In terms of gear, a lot of it isn't that hard in tabletop terms.  Plus it's not 25 upgrades - heaps of them are common between multiple weapons.

Broken down:
Increased damage: All weapons
Increased magazine: 3/5
Spare mags (not an actual upgrade, is it?): 2/5
AP rounds: 4/5
Scope: 4/5
Melee Augmentation: 2/5

Unique: Stability, Shotgun Spread Reduction, Lightweight Materials, Heatsinks and Concentration Mod*.

So when you get down to it, it's actually 11 mods - less then half the work (and I see no reason beyond modelling and placement of items that they all wouldn't work for all weapons - why can't the SMG have AP rounds?).  Most of them already exist as mechanics (and the ones that don't are super easy to model, IMO).

* NFI how to model this one in tabletop terms though...  At least not without it being broken as all get out.

Functionally, stastically, and in appearance the M-560 Hydra and Cobra Missile Launcher are exactly the same weapon - NFI why bioware thought they needed seperate names for the multiplayer and singleplayer modes.

[Mister Andersen]

Well, one thing I'd be adding is Extra Mile as a campaign quality: as long as 1 team member is left standing, the rest of the team is back in action by the following scene.

[Krensky]

I'd argue that the scopes, improved sniper scope, and choke all do the same thing under the hood. They increase accuracy. Mechanically, the SMG, Pistol, and Assault Rifle scopes should be modeled as normal scopes. The Sniper scope is probably best done as a thermal scope upgrade since it's main use to the player is to see through a Centurion's smoke grenades. I think there's already an upgrade in SC2.0 which should cover the smart choke, but it's been a while.

The concentration one shouldn't be that hard. It's a small damage boost and a time dilation effect. Free aim action when using it comes to mind.

As for the Hydra/Cobra thing... best guess is to explain why you can carry two or more cobras but only can have one hydra at a time and can't save it for later. Which I find slightly annoying, but not as annoying as the fact that the fucking banshee always charges just as I launch a cobra at the bitch.

[Mister Andersen]

Then there's the whole encumbrance factoring into ability recharge times to consider

[Krensky]

Yeah, but my recharge times are the same with 4 cobras as they are with 2.

[Sletchman]

I'd argue that the scopes, improved sniper scope, and choke all do the same thing under the hood. They increase accuracy. Mechanically, the SMG, Pistol, and Assault Rifle scopes should be modeled as normal scopes. The Sniper scope is probably best done as a thermal scope upgrade since it's main use to the player is to see through a Centurion's smoke grenades.

My thoughts exactly.

I think there's already an upgrade in SC2.0 which should cover the smart choke, but it's been a while.

Removes Spread.  Done?

The concentration one shouldn't be that hard. It's a small damage boost and a time dilation effect. Free aim action when using it comes to mind.

Very good idea.

As for the Hydra/Cobra thing... best guess is to explain why you can carry two or more cobras but only can have one hydra at a time and can't save it for later. Which I find slightly annoying, but not as annoying as the fact that the fucking banshee always charges just as I launch a cobra at the bitch.

Shoot the ground - the missile can go through her legs too (which makes me rage a little on higher difficulties when you have 3 banshee's and manage to kill a single husk with a missile).

Then there's the whole encumbrance factoring into ability recharge times to consider

When I first started playing my immediate thought was: Powers are focus skills (they take 20 points to max, you get a "focus" to use it and then 3 more for "evolutions") and they all have the ACP tag.  Way better on paper then in practice.  I think for this though simpler is probably easier then some elaborate system - if you're in medium load you can use a power every other round.  Heavy = every 3rd.  Hows that?

[Krensky]

As for the Hydra/Cobra thing... best guess is to explain why you can carry two or more cobras but only can have one hydra at a time and can't save it for later. Which I find slightly annoying, but not as annoying as the fact that the fucking banshee always charges just as I launch a cobra at the bitch.

Shoot the ground - the missile can go through her legs too (which makes me rage a little on higher difficulties when you have 3 banshee's and manage to kill a single husk with a missile).

Doesn't help much when she's on the other side of the zone from where she was when the missile launched. Of course I've adjusted to considering the Ravagers and Brutes that show up at the same time (or even swarm of husks) to be higher priority targets in late waves. Heck, I get ganked by Ravagers and Marauders for more often then Banshees.

[Mister Andersen]

Since the idea of a redesign throwing 2.0 to the wind in favour of MC has arisen...

Having just finished #2 and based on the demo for #3, where #1's vestigal approach to skills has have been discarded for a streamlined purely powers-based character progression, I'd almost be tempted to use something like Back to Basics as the starting point for class design. The various abilities one has access to and their "one or the other" improvement feel more like talent trees than anything else, while the various Alliance Training / Asari Adept / Quarian Engineer / etc passive abilities are pretty much just the benefits of leveling your class. Starting from the ground-up like thi also fits the MC credo of "designing classes for the game at hand"

(click to show/hide)

It maps out quite well:

Adept - Biotics+
  Sentinel - Biotics + Tech
Engineer - Tech+
  Infiltrator - Tech + Martial
Soldier - Martial+
  Vanguard - Martial + Biotics

[Sletchman]

As for the Hydra/Cobra thing... best guess is to explain why you can carry two or more cobras but only can have one hydra at a time and can't save it for later. Which I find slightly annoying, but not as annoying as the fact that the fucking banshee always charges just as I launch a cobra at the bitch.

Shoot the ground - the missile can go through her legs too (which makes me rage a little on higher difficulties when you have 3 banshee's and manage to kill a single husk with a missile).

Doesn't help much when she's on the other side of the zone from where she was when the missile launched. Of course I've adjusted to considering the Ravagers and Brutes that show up at the same time (or even swarm of husks) to be higher priority targets in late waves. Heck, I get ganked by Ravagers and Marauders for more often then Banshees.

The Banshee is such an amazing psychological weapon.  You really gotta give Bioware props for that - heaps of really good gamers just lose their cool and go nuts when she warps in and starts screaming.  They'll leave cover and just stand there fully autoing her without regard for other enemies.  But she's not a real threat - I don't think a Banshee has ever actually killed me when I wasn't a vanguard who charged into her autokill move (and even then it was the lag that killed me - I vanguard solo them with ease normally).

Ravagers - now they kill me all the time.  But they're slow and fairly quiet until they kill you, so no one freaks out like they do with the Banshee - and the acid and swarmers the Ravagers drop on death kill plenty of players too.

I think that needs to go into the tabletop game - something like a Resolve check based on her screaming (with a big AoE) that effectively forces you to go full retard.  Not sure how to mechanics it (Taunt + Aggro maybe?), but it takes a fair bit of player experience to get to the stage that you realise she's not a big threat - her real threat is that she takes your attention.


@Mr A: I've always kind of thought that Engineer and Adept should be classes.  Not necessarily the other ones.  Mostly because:
Vanguard = Adept + Martial Artist/Soldier
Infiltrator = Engineer + Burglar/Intruder/Soldier (depending on focus)
Sentinel = Adept + Engineer

It was far more clear in ME1 where that was quite literally the case with the hybrid classes.  ME2/3 added specialised powers for them, but in a big way they are still an Adept/Soldier or an Engineer/Soldier/Sniper.

[Mister Andersen]

Yeah, that's sort of my point: don't try and hammer existing classes into place.

[Sletchman]

Yeah, that's sort of my point: don't try and hammer existing classes into place.

I may be having a stupid moment, but what do you mean here?

A) Don't hammer existing clases into place: Vanguard should be a class of its own.  Not Solder / Adept multi.
B) I'm correct: Vanguard is Soldier + Adept multi.  Done deal.
C) I'm somewhat correct: Vanguard should start as Adept + Soldier, but it should be an Expert Class (in the same way Rune Knight fills the Soldier/Mage hybrid goal).
D) Something else?

Note: Replace Vanguard with Infiltrator and reference Engineer class where appropriate.