[mastercraft] New Paths: Riddick, Night & the Bat

[Golden Dragon]

Step I's can be taken at any time along a class that's granting steps, and if the 3/5/7/9/11/13/15/17/19 ability of Soldier can get along just fine with a feat and nothing more, what's so sub-par about Priest that it needs to be able to take a feat+goody in any of those slots? Answer: nothing. It's over powered.

I think this is the better argument, and what I suspected from a class design perspective.

We had a communication failure on your first answer. When I read it, it came across as heavy-handed and belligerent. I'm not your opponent (or enemy) to be vanquished, but a friend who took an interest in one of your statements. I wanted to understand it.

Does the campaign quality Miracles (Beneficent Universe) dodge the Blessed problem because it is not a feat itself?

[Morgenstern]

I think this is the better argument, and what I suspected from a class design perspective.

Recursion issues are way high up my list of alarm bells . Most of my worst design misteps involve them.

We had a communication failure on your first answer. When I read it, it came across as heavy-handed and belligerent.

*Shrug* Belligerence from me ussualy take the form of disengaging from the coversation. Pointedly. I don't stick around to chat with people who are pissing me off .

I wanted to understand it.

I got that . That's why I posted a reply restating the concern in different terms.

Does the campaign quality Miracles (Beneficent Universe) dodge the Blessed problem because it is not a feat itself?

It does reduce the imbalance by avoiding the +1 Spellcastin feat count, but it creates this case:

A player is not going to take levels as a Priest wants to get Pathfinder (caverns/mountains) to support his theme. He should be looking to Path of Earth - because that's cool. He's Always better served by going Path of Wilderness because he gets the same feat he wanted AND an ability arguably quite useful to hanging out in caves.

Making a tightly themed option (Path of Earth) inferior to a generally appliabale option that can do everything and more is a problem. The Crafty guys are allowed, but fan-created stuff is better served by not replicating a loophole, since you are (if you are posting it at all) trying to gain acceptance that your creation is fair and reasonable. For fan-created options, it's better to adhere to the lower standard.
 

[Sletchman]

I'm going to read this as: With Blessed available, this is a problem.

With the Path of Magic problem, and the problems we see here, I'm thinking Blessed needs to come out of the toolbox.

I'm of the opinion that Blessed definately has a place - settings with active god involvement who will aid their faithful [which comes up a fair bit in fiction] needs to have mechanical support beyond "every character is a Priest / has priest levels".

In some games [of course it's very setting dependant] I would even allow players to advance a path fully through the use of a Blessed feat chain [5 feats long] - I would simply be careful to word it in a way that it cannot stack with Priest advancement.

[Mister Andersen]

If these are solid, I'll pass them on to the FCDB

[Morgenstern]

They look sound to me. THe only internal clash I seem them generating is you could end up getting the Horror type twice which has not direct resolution. Let me ask: is it deliberate that the character gets Horror at all times from these paths, or would that be made more flavorful to have the addition of that type be conditional?

[Mister Andersen]

I dunno. I can see Night's being conditional on the ambient lighting, but the Bat is really just that hard core.

Night IV: You gain the dread quality and opponents within Close range who are aware of your presence receive an insight penalty to Will saves equal to your Charisma modifer (minimum 1). In dim, faint or no ambient light, you gain the damage defiance (sneak attack) and monstrous defence II qualities, and a morale bonus to Fortitude saves equal to your step. 

The Bat IV: You gain grueling combatant quality, and an insight bonus to Fortitude saves equal to your step. Additionally in dim, faint or no ambient lighting you gain the damage defiance (sneak attack), and monstrous defence II qualities, and opponents within Close range who aware of your presence receive an insight penalty to Will saves equal to your Charisma modifer (minimum 1).


All of the above should stack with the horror type, granted by Path of Evil or some splinter feats, and given you've either 15 levels or 13 levels + blessed or 7 levels + an origin + 2 splinter feats to get there, I'm not too concerned because once you pick up that type, you also suddenly become vulnerable to more game effects than you used to be.

The difference to the fort bonuses is deliberate - Bats have trained themselves to be that tough, Night types are just twisted enough to enjoy it. Conversely, Bats are really only scary in the dark, while people giving themselves to the Night are just plain scary

RAW actually makes horrors less effective in total darkness, so while most folks will inflict a smaller penalty, they can do it in broader circumstances

[Morgenstern]

Yeah. I'm leaning back toward just grant horror. The savings in verbage is totally worth the occasional partial overlap of a late step.

[Mister Andersen]

Night IV: You gain the dread quality, and in dim, faint or no ambient lighting you gain the horror type.

Bat IV: In dim, faint or no ambient lighting you gain the horror type. Additionally you may ignore a number of attempts to turn horrors per session equal to your step.

[Morgenstern]

Night IV: You gain the dread quality, and in dim, faint or no ambient lighting you gain the horror type.

That seems like it does more with less .

Bat IV: In dim, faint or no ambient lighting you gain the horror type. Additionally you may ignore a number of attempts to turn horrors per session equal to your step.

Now that turn ignoring benefit has potential for many future iterations . Given the source material, I think the bat version should be less light based and more personna/pulling on a guise based. He doesn't radiate menace when he's out and about as Bruce, which can be at night and in swanky clubs (wheras RIddick is ALWAYS scary in the dark ). Spend an action die to turn it on or off? GIves bruce the occasional Scare the crap out of people inthe board room in broad daylight moments too.

[Mister Andersen]

Bat IV: Once per scene as a free action you may spend an Action Die to gain the horror type until the end of the scene. Further, you may ignore any attempt to turn you a number of times per session equal to your step.

As there is now a cost involved in augmenting your type, it seems balanced to extend the turn immunity to any type you might possess, which fits into the general scaryness and focused will of a Bat

[Morgenstern]

Being able to spend a die to remove the horror type until the end of the scene might make it mesh better with other steps,  but on the whole that looks quite sound .

"Back, you fiend!"

"...No."

[Mister Andersen]

Bat IV: A number of times per scene equal to your Charisma modifier, you may spend an Action Die as a free action to lose or gain the horror type until the end of the scene. Further, you may ignore any attempt to turn you a number of times per session equal to your step.

[Morgenstern]

I think you can dump the number of times per scene onthe toggle - the action die cost puts a pretty immediate cap on it. If a player turns it off more than once a scene I'll be amazed - so many other uses for an action die...

Anywho, looks like good stuff. That turn immunity has me pondering .

[Mister Andersen]

First post altered with the final versions and they've just been submitted to the FCDB.

[Desertpuma]

Good stuff