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Author Topic: Fantasy Craft Second Printing Q&A Thread  (Read 171642 times)
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« Reply #2520 on: July 15, 2015, 01:57:50 AM »

Looking over the effects and spells I see no mention as to what mechanical effects being asleep has on a character.

For magically induced sleep, the Sleep I and Sleep II spells, I figure you are basically helpless until you pass the repeatable Will Save to wake up.

But, what about mundane sleep?  When sneaking around a sleeping character, how should one determine if the sleeper is awoken by noise?  An Opposed Check of Sneak vs Notice with the Notice at a penalty for being asleep?

Likewise, when does an unconscious character wake up?  If someone is Fatigued to the point of passing out, do they wake up at the end of Combat?  Or is there something needed to do to wake them, assuming smelling salts are not available.

* Bashes head against the wall to stop the pain.

this guy
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« Reply #2521 on: July 15, 2015, 05:33:49 AM »

Quote
Flanked: A character is flanked when 2 opponents stand
on directly opposite and adjacent sides of him. While flanking
a character, an opponent gains a +2 bonus with attack checks
against him.
so having Reach prevents being counted as in flaking position due to the adjaciency restriction?
Doesn't make much sense to me Smiley
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« Reply #2522 on: July 15, 2015, 08:35:58 AM »

Thank you MezzoCatorce.

Maybe we can ask for rules about what you can and can't do while dead next?

Please do not be a dick Krensky.  Besides, those rules are covered, see page 384, Cheating Death.  And people have asked those questions when it comes to Outsider and Construct Types being killed.

Are you implying that things like Sleep should just be 'assumed' to know what you can or can't do? That a DC, for instance, to use Sneak against a sleeping guard to go past him (as is common in fantasy) is a completely unknown factor and should just be handwaved? Reasonably speaking, it should go against his Notice at a penalty due to being asleep; we just want to know what that number should be. It's not something that should offend any sensibilities.

And that is the exact situation I am thinking of.  The Adventure I am making has a good chance of involving the players sneaking around some sleeping NPCs (If they choose to do so that is).  And while it seemed logical to be a Sneak vs Notice to avoid waking the sleeper, I wanted to know if the sleeper got a penalty to Notice.  Also, I realized that their Notice would be getting some penalties as well from Hearing Range Increments.
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« Reply #2523 on: July 15, 2015, 03:25:51 PM »

Looking over the effects and spells I see no mention as to what mechanical effects being asleep has on a character.

For magically induced sleep, the Sleep I and Sleep II spells, I figure you are basically helpless until you pass the repeatable Will Save to wake up.

But, what about mundane sleep?  When sneaking around a sleeping character, how should one determine if the sleeper is awoken by noise?  An Opposed Check of Sneak vs Notice with the Notice at a penalty for being asleep?

Likewise, when does an unconscious character wake up?  If someone is Fatigued to the point of passing out, do they wake up at the end of Combat?  Or is there something needed to do to wake them, assuming smelling salts are not available.

Thank you MezzoCatorce.

Maybe we can ask for rules about what you can and can't do while dead next?

Please do not be a dick Krensky.  Besides, those rules are covered, see page 384, Cheating Death.  And people have asked those questions when it comes to Outsider and Construct Types being killed.

Are you implying that things like Sleep should just be 'assumed' to know what you can or can't do? That a DC, for instance, to use Sneak against a sleeping guard to go past him (as is common in fantasy) is a completely unknown factor and should just be handwaved? Reasonably speaking, it should go against his Notice at a penalty due to being asleep; we just want to know what that number should be. It's not something that should offend any sensibilities.

And that is the exact situation I am thinking of.  The Adventure I am making has a good chance of involving the players sneaking around some sleeping NPCs (If they choose to do so that is).  And while it seemed logical to be a Sneak vs Notice to avoid waking the sleeper, I wanted to know if the sleeper got a penalty to Notice.  Also, I realized that their Notice would be getting some penalties as well from Hearing Range Increments.

People have strong feelings about rules- even moreso on the internet.

Most of what you want is covered in Healing on page 207- 2d4 hours of sleep to naturally wake an unconscious person, DC 10 Medicine check to awaken an unconscious character-

I'd say even normal sleep makes you Helpless and Blinded- that right there says you can be Coup De Grace'd, everyone gets a +4 to hit you, and sneak checks made to pass you by gain a +4 bonus.

+4 is probably enough, with a circumstantial +2 from the GM for "you're a heavy sleeper-" maybe an extra +2 if it's "You shouldn't have drank so much-" That DOES mean that characters with a high Notice (definitely Notice. I can't imagine a sleeping Search) are notoriously light sleepers- I guess that makes some thematic sense- they're that edgy ranger who's always on alert and shoots up with his bow drawn every time the fighter steps on a twig.

Once you start going any deeper than that, you start going way off into crazy-land where you're trying to figure out how loud a noise would have to be for a character's sleeping mind to process it as something to wake up to, and whether or not they'd be aware enough to analyze the sound when they awaken- A bonus to Sneak and some GM control (should they wake up? Would it be good story-telling if they didn't? And so on) is probably sufficient.
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« Reply #2524 on: July 15, 2015, 03:36:35 PM »

I'd say even normal sleep makes you Helpless and Blinded- that right there says you can be Coup De Grace'd, everyone gets a +4 to hit you, and sneak checks made to pass you by gain a +4 bonus.

+4 is probably enough, with a circumstantial +2 from the GM for "you're a heavy sleeper-" maybe an extra +2 if it's "You shouldn't have drank so much-" That DOES mean that characters with a high Notice (definitely Notice. I can't imagine a sleeping Search) are notoriously light sleepers- I guess that makes some thematic sense- they're that edgy ranger who's always on alert and shoots up with his bow drawn every time the fighter steps on a twig.

Once you start going any deeper than that, you start going way off into crazy-land where you're trying to figure out how loud a noise would have to be for a character's sleeping mind to process it as something to wake up to, and whether or not they'd be aware enough to analyze the sound when they awaken- A bonus to Sneak and some GM control (should they wake up? Would it be good story-telling if they didn't? And so on) is probably sufficient.

The Blinded Condition, good thinking.  I had not thought of that.  Sleeping giving the person the Helpless and Blinded Conditions would work well I think.  Thanks for the advice.
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« Reply #2525 on: July 15, 2015, 07:48:30 PM »

I'd say even normal sleep makes you Helpless and Blinded- that right there says you can be Coup De Grace'd, everyone gets a +4 to hit you, and sneak checks made to pass you by gain a +4 bonus.

+4 is probably enough, with a circumstantial +2 from the GM for "you're a heavy sleeper-" maybe an extra +2 if it's "You shouldn't have drank so much-" That DOES mean that characters with a high Notice (definitely Notice. I can't imagine a sleeping Search) are notoriously light sleepers- I guess that makes some thematic sense- they're that edgy ranger who's always on alert and shoots up with his bow drawn every time the fighter steps on a twig.

Once you start going any deeper than that, you start going way off into crazy-land where you're trying to figure out how loud a noise would have to be for a character's sleeping mind to process it as something to wake up to, and whether or not they'd be aware enough to analyze the sound when they awaken- A bonus to Sneak and some GM control (should they wake up? Would it be good story-telling if they didn't? And so on) is probably sufficient.

The Blinded Condition, good thinking.  I had not thought of that.  Sleeping giving the person the Helpless and Blinded Conditions would work well I think.  Thanks for the advice.

No worries- course it's only a matter of time before your Soldier claims he sleeps with one eye open and therefore shouldn't be blinded. No solution's perfect!
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« Reply #2526 on: July 15, 2015, 09:54:40 PM »

I'd say even normal sleep makes you Helpless and Blinded- that right there says you can be Coup De Grace'd, everyone gets a +4 to hit you, and sneak checks made to pass you by gain a +4 bonus.

+4 is probably enough, with a circumstantial +2 from the GM for "you're a heavy sleeper-" maybe an extra +2 if it's "You shouldn't have drank so much-" That DOES mean that characters with a high Notice (definitely Notice. I can't imagine a sleeping Search) are notoriously light sleepers- I guess that makes some thematic sense- they're that edgy ranger who's always on alert and shoots up with his bow drawn every time the fighter steps on a twig.

Once you start going any deeper than that, you start going way off into crazy-land where you're trying to figure out how loud a noise would have to be for a character's sleeping mind to process it as something to wake up to, and whether or not they'd be aware enough to analyze the sound when they awaken- A bonus to Sneak and some GM control (should they wake up? Would it be good story-telling if they didn't? And so on) is probably sufficient.

The Blinded Condition, good thinking.  I had not thought of that.  Sleeping giving the person the Helpless and Blinded Conditions would work well I think.  Thanks for the advice.

No worries- course it's only a matter of time before your Soldier claims he sleeps with one eye open and therefore shouldn't be blinded. No solution's perfect!

Yeah, but that's exactly what the Light Sleeper quality that you can get from Origin does, so that's an easy retort if they try to play that card. "Oh, I'm a light sleeper", well, you should have taken the quality if you wanted that benefit (or done something not strictly covered in the rules to earn it, like IC training or something), same as how people can't say "Actually, I'm an expert at detecting lies because I gamble a lot" when they have a Sense Motive of +1 and no bonuses like Mark or Cold Read.
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« Reply #2527 on: July 16, 2015, 12:29:07 AM »

Alternatively, D&D 3.5 assigns a -10 penalty to Listen checks while asleep. That also seems like a decent ballpark penalty.
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« Reply #2528 on: July 16, 2015, 08:39:36 AM »

I'd say even normal sleep makes you Helpless and Blinded- that right there says you can be Coup De Grace'd, everyone gets a +4 to hit you, and sneak checks made to pass you by gain a +4 bonus.

+4 is probably enough, with a circumstantial +2 from the GM for "you're a heavy sleeper-" maybe an extra +2 if it's "You shouldn't have drank so much-" That DOES mean that characters with a high Notice (definitely Notice. I can't imagine a sleeping Search) are notoriously light sleepers- I guess that makes some thematic sense- they're that edgy ranger who's always on alert and shoots up with his bow drawn every time the fighter steps on a twig.

Once you start going any deeper than that, you start going way off into crazy-land where you're trying to figure out how loud a noise would have to be for a character's sleeping mind to process it as something to wake up to, and whether or not they'd be aware enough to analyze the sound when they awaken- A bonus to Sneak and some GM control (should they wake up? Would it be good story-telling if they didn't? And so on) is probably sufficient.

The Blinded Condition, good thinking.  I had not thought of that.  Sleeping giving the person the Helpless and Blinded Conditions would work well I think.  Thanks for the advice.

No worries- course it's only a matter of time before your Soldier claims he sleeps with one eye open and therefore shouldn't be blinded. No solution's perfect!

Yeah, but that's exactly what the Light Sleeper quality that you can get from Origin does, so that's an easy retort if they try to play that card. "Oh, I'm a light sleeper", well, you should have taken the quality if you wanted that benefit (or done something not strictly covered in the rules to earn it, like IC training or something), same as how people can't say "Actually, I'm an expert at detecting lies because I gamble a lot" when they have a Sense Motive of +1 and no bonuses like Mark or Cold Read.

Ah, yeah, good point- I managed to forget that  Light Sleeper exists- I like the concept of that quality a lot more as "you're neither blinded nor helpless[/] while sleeping, even if Terminal Situations are a lot more open ended as a GM tool.

Alternatively, D&D 3.5 assigns a -10 penalty to Listen checks while asleep. That also seems like a decent ballpark penalty.

FC has a lower skill scale than D&D (lower attributes, fewer/smaller bonuses & penalties)- so while this could work but I'd warn against using a penalty quite that high
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« Reply #2529 on: August 04, 2015, 11:57:38 PM »

I'm curious as to why the Edgemaster has Survival instead of Resolve as a class skill?
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« Reply #2530 on: August 04, 2015, 11:59:47 PM »

Old hermit living in the woods archetype maybe  Smiley. Resolve didn't seem all that pressing.
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« Reply #2531 on: Today at 12:56:14 AM »

Coolbeans. It just seems odd given the need for it to defend against Threaten and Tire
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