Character Generators?

[tenebrae]

Huh. I stand corrected. Eddy was our main contact and I was under the impression he was Code Monkey, but then I was always a little confused by the relationship between companies, so it's entirely possible I was wrong. 

Yeah, the whole naming thing is pretty confusing. I'd definitely recommend having a look at Code Monkey Publishing (www.codemonkeypublishing.com) as one of the options for a licensed (and hopefully profitable) SC2.0 chargen product, either as part of PCGen, or their upcoming RPG Foundry program.

[Crafty_Pat]

Yeah, the whole naming thing is pretty confusing. I'd definitely recommend having a look at Code Monkey Publishing (www.codemonkeypublishing) as one of the options for a licensed (and hopefully profitable) SC2.0 chargen product, either as part of PCGen, or their upcoming RPG Foundry program.

So I can't find a basic description of this program anywhere on their site. Any more specific pointers?

[tenebrae]

Most of the information about RPGF is in their forums, I think. Personally, I'd prefer a PCGen dataset, since it's a program I'm familiar with (and it's available free, and regularly updated by a large team of cods), and I'd certainly be willing to pay for a series of SC datasets for it.

[TheAuldGrump]

We were dealing with Code Monkey directly from the get-go.

With all due respect, I'm pretty sure this is incorrect. Eddy Anthony was the main programmer on the Spycraft 2.0 dataset (I made a few contributions too) until the project was cancelled at Crafty's request, and he's a PCGen team member, not a CMP employee.

(All PCGen team members are ranked by monkey status [e.g. Code gibbon], so that might have been the origin of the misunderstanding)

Huh. I stand corrected. Eddy was our main contact and I was under the impression he was Code Monkey, but then I was always a little confused by the relationship between companies, so it's entirely possible I was wrong. 

It seems to have been an often recurring problem - they are completely separate companies, both working on the same product line. Code Monkey for example handled the official WotC/D&D data sets, while PCGen without those releases, was limited to the SRD and OGC. Even some of the people working on PCGen datasets seem to have that problem. Think of PCGen as a car maker, and Code Monkey as an after market manufacturer, supplying leather seat covers and fuzzy dice to hang from the mirror. The car is free, but those fuzzy dice can get expensive.

Code Monkey may very well end up going belly up - the loss of the WotC support (Because of WotC's forthcoming 'Digital Initiative) hurt them bad.

The Auld Grump

[hawaiisempi]

Pat,

I'm one of the guys who helped Eddy build some of the LST files for Spycraft 2 for PCGen. If you could reach an agreement that would be awesome. I still use my copy and occasionally modify my own LST files for my games.

PCGen is a boon for the gaming community and, IMHO, supports the concept of the OGL. It provides a means for people to put all the numbers in and crunch them while not detracting from the Intellectual Capital that goes into the game creation.

I constantly had to reference my copy of SC2.0 to work with it.

Hawaiisempi

[Drawback]

I'm not very hot with Code monkey publishing right now... They're having one hard time to just survive these days (it's a long drama) 

I'd suggest HeroLab from Wolflair (as I suggested before). The program is already out there, works and they're on a roll right now with a lot of RPG systems (M&M, WoD and that BSG + Firefly RPG company with the name of a girl I can't remember right now).

I'd prefer to pay more for a program that will be supported a long time than to pay a smaller fee for a generator that's not going to integrate newer books...

[TheAuldGrump]

I'm not very hot with Code monkey publishing right now... They're having one hard time to just survive these days (it's a long drama) 

I'd suggest HeroLab from Wolflair (as I suggested before). The program is already out there, works and they're on a roll right now with a lot of RPG systems (M&M, WoD and that BSG + Firefly RPG company with the name of a girl I can't remember right now).

I'd prefer to pay more for a program that will be supported a long time than to pay a smaller fee for a generator that's not going to integrate newer books...

Bear in mind that there are some people who would rather not deal with Wolf Lair and their DRM. I would rather use paper and pencil than put money in their coffers at this point. I mentioned the reasons previously, and have seen no reason to change my mind.

The Auld Grump, they can take their yearly license fee and put it someplace dark.

[VisualStatic]

I'm currently working on my BA in CIS.  One of the aspect of my degree was Java programming.  I'm always looking at ways to take class knowledge and actually use it.

My idea was a Java based character generator for SC.  More for myself then anything to make sure I retain what I've learn in class.  Since there seems to be some interest in something like this, I thought I'd atleast post what my idea is and see if its something that would be ok with the guys from Crafty or if I'll have to keep it to myself.

My idea is to make the number crunching easier and not replace in anyway the SC book.  As an example, during the generation, when someone would get to the point of selecting a talent or other origin, all I would have listed is the name of the talent.  No numbers, no benefits, just the name.  The numbers would be there in manner for putting everything together within the code, but not listed in the text of the display.  You'd have to know which one you want or look them in the book as to what they do.

I'm currently still in the design stage, as I'm still learning a few things yet that will probably be needed to do everything I'd like to, so no code has been written.

The reason I picked Java was, one, it's what I"m learn. Two, it would be nice to have something that would not be restricted to just one type of computer.

Any comments or concerns, please let me know.

[Crafty_Pat]

Anyone interested in producing this kind of product should drop me a line at pat@crafty-games.com so we can talk details.

[Drawback]

Okay, I'm back commenting about the HeroLab program I talked about earlier: there's no yearly fee to pay for it. As soon as you've bought it, it's yours. You'll see my email with the programmers of HeroLab appended at the end.

I don't know where you got your info TheAuldgump... Now, don't take this comment as a defence for HeroLab which you seem to hate, you're entitled to your opinion.

It's just that this program is supported by a lot of companies right now and that adding the Spycraft line to this particular program would ensure long time support from a company that has a solid background compared something made by one guy or by CodeMonkeyPublishing (they were "good" until they hit the wall... a hard one).

Again, I'm also entitled to MY opinion!

I've appended a transcript:

drawback wrote:
>
>
> In another forum, I keep hearing HeroLab's license is a yearly one. So
> that if I buy the product today, in a year, I'll have to buy the license
> again to keep using it.
>
> I've read the FAQ and searched all around your website and found no
> mention of that. Is that true?
>
> By itself it's not a big thing for me BUT I'd like to know the facts
> before commiting myself to a purchase.

Hi there,

You found no mention of it because it's not true!  Once you buy Hero
Lab, you "own" it forever - there's no need to pay a yearly fee.

Our web site has a full explanation of the licensing mechanism.

Hope this helps,

[TheAuldGrump]

No, the decision I made is not against the program Hero Labs, it is against Wolf's Lair, the company that produces it. I used to use Army Builder 2, which was a very good program for managing armies for war games - and when the third edition came out they did indeed introduce a license system - and one that is still in place. That is where I get my information. DO you understand now? I have provided a link if you have any doubts. It is from their own site. I will not support a company that uses such systems. They can go pound sand. I really do not care if Hero Labs is not a yearly license - Wolf's Lair is not getting any of my business.

I have no problem with paying for a program I like. I do not support piracy. I do not even have any pirated MP3s on my machine. But I will not rent software, which is what they are supporting with their license model.

The Auld Grump, who is and was fully aware that Hero Labs itself has a system by system license rather than yearly.

[Drawback]

No, the decision I made is not against the program Hero Labs, it is against Wolf's Lair, the company that produces it.

Yeah, that's what I started to think. I agree with you that it might have felt like robbery on their part.

The Auld Grump, who is and was fully aware that Hero Labs itself has a system by system license rather than yearly.

Well, I didn't know, hence the reason of the post before. Furthermore, I didn't think you knew... Just wanted to be sure we were "on the same page" (is that expression english?). Can we sing "kumbawa" together now? 

[TheAuldGrump]

No, the decision I made is not against the program Hero Labs, it is against Wolf's Lair, the company that produces it.

Yeah, that's what I started to think. I agree with you that it might have felt like robbery on their part.

The Auld Grump, who is and was fully aware that Hero Labs itself has a system by system license rather than yearly.

Well, I didn't know, hence the reason of the post before. Furthermore, I didn't think you knew... Just wanted to be sure we were "on the same page" (is that expression english?). Can we sing "kumbawa" together now? 

I tend more towards the March of Cambreadth.

The yearly license for Army Builder very much annoyed me - I am Gael enough to be the burn the cottage and salt the earth sort. (Or kick the Romans out and move into the Castle of Skulls for that matter....)

*EDIT* The music linked really is worth listening to, by the way, in a 'Take No Prisoners' sort of way.

The Auld Grump

[mosat]

Huh. I stand corrected. Eddy was our main contact and I was under the impression he was Code Monkey, but then I was always a little confused by the relationship between companies, so it's entirely possible I was wrong. 

PCGen is an open source software project who's exsistance is due entirely to the efforts of it's volunteer members. PCGen has a board of directors but is otherwise unincorpoated. The PCGen project produces the PCGen software and a variety of datasets included with the program, most of which are OGL. A few sets include IP not released under the OGL with permission from the IP holders. Regardless of the legalities of what can and can't be included via the OGL PCGen maintains a policy of requiring permission from the publishers before we will include any dataset based on thier works. I am a member of PCGen and my work on the Spycraft 2 dataset (and the original Spycraft dataset for that matter) was a volunteer effort with the goal of getting it included in PCGen.

Code Monkey Publishing (CMP) is a for profit company which creates and sells datasets which can be used in PCGen. They are also working on thier own character generator and in the past produced datasets and code patches for E-Tools, WotC's now shelved character generator.

CMP has nothing to do with the production of the PCGen program and PCGen has nothing to do with CMP produced datasets. Most of the confusion about the two groups arises from the fact that CMP was founded by the same person who originally created PCGen and CMP's owners, many of its employee's and paid contractors are also PCGen volunteers.

As to the suggestion that Crafty take this to CMP I am open to the idea, I believe it was one compromise we suggested before we dropped the project. CMP would need hire me as a contractor since the datasets would be offered for sale and not distributed as part of the open source project. There is also the added complication that other volunteers made contributions to this set as well.

[TheAuldGrump]

Huh. I stand corrected. Eddy was our main contact and I was under the impression he was Code Monkey, but then I was always a little confused by the relationship between companies, so it's entirely possible I was wrong. 

PCGen is an open source software project who's exsistance is due entirely to the efforts of it's volunteer members. PCGen has a board of directors but is otherwise unincorpoated. The PCGen project produces the PCGen software and a variety of datasets included with the program, most of which are OGL. A few sets include IP not released under the OGL with permission from the IP holders. Regardless of the legalities of what can and can't be included via the OGL PCGen maintains a policy of requiring permission from the publishers before we will include any dataset based on thier works. I am a member of PCGen and my work on the Spycraft 2 dataset (and the original Spycraft dataset for that matter) was a volunteer effort with the goal of getting it included in PCGen.

Code Monkey Publishing (CMP) is a for profit company which creates and sells datasets which can be used in PCGen. They are also working on thier own character generator and in the past produced datasets and code patches for E-Tools, WotC's now shelved character generator.

CMP has nothing to do with the production of the PCGen program and PCGen has nothing to do with CMP produced datasets. Most of the confusion about the two groups arises from the fact that CMP was founded by the same person who originally created PCGen and CMP's owners, many of its employee's and paid contractors are also PCGen volunteers.

As to the suggestion that Crafty take this to CMP I am open to the idea, I believe it was one compromise we suggested before we dropped the project. CMP would need hire me as a contractor since the datasets would be offered for sale and not distributed as part of the open source project. There is also the added complication that other volunteers made contributions to this set as well.

Thank you for showing up and commenting. It is always good to have someone closer to the source.

The Auld Grump