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Question: What edition of Spycraft do you play, and do you use the conversion documents?
Spycraft 2.0, and I use the conversion material   -33 (52.4%)
Spycraft 2.0,  don't use the conversion material   -13 (20.6%)
Spycraft first edition, and to hell with conversions!   -10 (15.9%)
I haven't used these at my table yet.   -7 (11.1%)
Total Voters: 57

Author Topic: [SURVEY] For customers of the 1.0 PDFs...  (Read 17875 times)
Crafty_Alex
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« on: June 17, 2007, 11:56:20 AM »

Dave reminded me of this question, which has been burning in my mind for a while. I'm curious what the people who've purchased the first edition PDFs are using them for - as a bed of new rules for 2.0, as fluff and enrichment for 2.0 games, or to play first edition standalone. Your input is appreciated!
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« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2007, 12:15:02 PM »

Since I have all the 1.0 books in print (well, almost all...), I pretty much only use the Conversation docs to grab shiny stuff like the new "department" Specialties from the SEH.

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« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2007, 01:00:35 PM »

Hi there,

I have been quite happy with the 1.0 game system and I am converting 2.0 stuff to it. I do not like to limit my game to one system and pull from many so I wind up needing to do house rules anyway. I like the fact that D20 came about and it has made pulling different games together easy. I look forward to your WoF coming out on PDF.

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« Reply #3 on: June 17, 2007, 02:28:46 PM »

I don't use the conversion documents, but if they help increase sales for 1.0 PDFs then they should be included Cheesy
« Last Edit: June 17, 2007, 02:32:29 PM by dpmcalister » Logged

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Forcegypsy
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« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2007, 04:26:24 PM »

I own the entire 1st edition line in dead-tree format so the pdf's aren't terribly useful to me without a conversion document attached. haven't felt the need to purchase yet.
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« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2007, 06:02:07 PM »

There is a lot of stuff that never got converted I'd like to have again. I'm really more about the mechanics than the setting material, though I always like using NPCs for inspiration and outright ripping off.

Some PCs are using the department specialties already and some psion material will probably be used eventually.
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« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2007, 06:12:02 PM »

I have most of the "silver" books and all of the "black" books in physical format, so any PDFs bought will be because of the conversion material.

I've been using the SFA conversions in my game (at this stage the opposition will have all the goodies from there, anything for players use/want will have to be aquired from opposition  Grin)
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« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2007, 02:25:46 AM »

There is a lot of stuff that never got converted I'd like to have again.

Like...?
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« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2007, 08:00:36 AM »

There is a lot of stuff that never got converted I'd like to have again.
Like...?

Well, I don't have my book collection to browse through right now, but at the top of my list is anything that was used in NPCs in Most Wanted, which I am waiting to convert. For example, I want to use Kali in my game and am waiting for Provocateur (which I understand is in WoF).

More generally speaking, I'm interested in non-combatant expert and master classes.
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« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2007, 08:11:02 AM »

I only bought a couple of the 1.0 books, and I don't plan on playing 1.0 anytime soon, so without the conversion notes they'd be mostly for novelty, mementos of past spycraft goodness or somesuch drivel.
I'd probably have bought them eventually, since I love throwing my money at you guys Grin, but they wouldn't be OMGMUSTHAVE!!!! like most of the the 2.0 stuff you're releasing.
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« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2007, 11:06:51 AM »

Dave reminded me of this question, which has been burning in my mind for a while. I'm curious what the people who've purchased the first edition PDFs are using them for - as a bed of new rules for 2.0, as fluff and enrichment for 2.0 games, or to play first edition standalone. Your input is appreciated!
I own the material in dead-tree format, and the only reason I decided to try the pdfs was to get the conversion documents.  Given the high price for what amounts to a few pages that are of use to me, I won't be doing it again. I don't regret the purchase in the case of the Shadowforce: Archer rulebook as much as I do the 1e rulebook, since there was so much more meat to the conversion of the former, while the latter felt very minimal.  No conversion of the gambling rules into a Dramatic Conflict or note how to use it with the current skill system -- which with the release of Casino Royale would have been killer -- and no conversion of the Fixer class.  I understand we've got a 5-level preview, I understand that it's supposed to be out whenever WoF hits the streets, but I've had Spycraft 2.0 for a couple years now, and still no Fixer -- a core class from 1e.  Given how lean that conversion was in the first place, I have to admit more than a bit of disappointment. 

To keep this on the productive tip, in future pdfs, I'd really want to see conversions of the key stuff in it in order for it to justify a purchase -- full PrC writeups even if it means reprinting material from WoF or 10KB (outside of the stuff in the core rulebook for 2.0, which you can assume everybody has,) full class conversions for things like the SFA classes (High-Roller, etc.), and in the case of something like the Shop book, a conversion of the expanded gadget rules.  I know it's more work, but if I'm going to be expected to pay $15 for a product I already own, it's what would be necessary, and given the slow release of products from Crafty, it would be pleasant "hit" while waiting for the next .pdf or book from Flaming Mongoose.

That may be the minority view, but as it stands, the pdfs simply aren't anything like a value for me. 

--B
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« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2007, 12:17:43 PM »

Dave reminded me of this question, which has been burning in my mind for a while. I'm curious what the people who've purchased the first edition PDFs are using them for - as a bed of new rules for 2.0, as fluff and enrichment for 2.0 games, or to play first edition standalone. Your input is appreciated!
I own the material in dead-tree format, and the only reason I decided to try the pdfs was to get the conversion documents.  Given the high price for what amounts to a few pages that are of use to me, I won't be doing it again. I don't regret the purchase in the case of the Shadowforce: Archer rulebook as much as I do the 1e rulebook, since there was so much more meat to the conversion of the former, while the latter felt very minimal.  No conversion of the gambling rules into a Dramatic Conflict or note how to use it with the current skill system -- which with the release of Casino Royale would have been killer -- and no conversion of the Fixer class.  I understand we've got a 5-level preview, I understand that it's supposed to be out whenever WoF hits the streets, but I've had Spycraft 2.0 for a couple years now, and still no Fixer -- a core class from 1e.  Given how lean that conversion was in the first place, I have to admit more than a bit of disappointment. 

To keep this on the productive tip, in future pdfs, I'd really want to see conversions of the key stuff in it in order for it to justify a purchase -- full PrC writeups even if it means reprinting material from WoF or 10KB (outside of the stuff in the core rulebook for 2.0, which you can assume everybody has,) full class conversions for things like the SFA classes (High-Roller, etc.), and in the case of something like the Shop book, a conversion of the expanded gadget rules.  I know it's more work, but if I'm going to be expected to pay $15 for a product I already own, it's what would be necessary, and given the slow release of products from Crafty, it would be pleasant "hit" while waiting for the next .pdf or book from Flaming Mongoose.

That may be the minority view, but as it stands, the pdfs simply aren't anything like a value for me. 

--B

I'm going to have to agree with Belisarius (fantastic name btw, great series of books). As an owner of the entire dead-tree spycraft line, I'd be willing to pay for a conversion, of my Classic Spycraft line, but not 15 dollars. More along the lines of Back to Basics or This is my rifle (depending on volume). I don't really need the searchable pdf's for the Classic line, I just need the conversion notes.
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« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2007, 12:53:19 PM »

Though I recall that the whole "I'm not paying 15 bucks just for those conversation notes!" has been raised before, I believe the answer was economic realities.

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Crafty_Alex
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« Reply #13 on: June 18, 2007, 12:58:01 PM »

I own the material in dead-tree format, and the only reason I decided to try the pdfs was to get the conversion documents.  Given the high price for what amounts to a few pages that are of use to me, I won't be doing it again. I don't regret the purchase in the case of the Shadowforce: Archer rulebook as much as I do the 1e rulebook, since there was so much more meat to the conversion of the former, while the latter felt very minimal.  No conversion of the gambling rules into a Dramatic Conflict or note how to use it with the current skill system -- which with the release of Casino Royale would have been killer -- and no conversion of the Fixer class.  I understand we've got a 5-level preview, I understand that it's supposed to be out whenever WoF hits the streets, but I've had Spycraft 2.0 for a couple years now, and still no Fixer -- a core class from 1e.  Given how lean that conversion was in the first place, I have to admit more than a bit of disappointment. 

I'm sorry to hear that, but I do understand. In all honesty, these PDFs are the worst selling of everything we've released - not that they sell particularly poorly, in the grand scheme of things, but there it is. We don't, as a rule, trump our 2.0 materials with conversions - Streetwise/Gambling has entirely replaced (and improved upon) the original 1.0 rules, since they never were a DCon. As for the Fixer - he was renamed the Intruder in 2.0. The new Fixer is a far cry from the 1.0 Fixer, as in...he's an actual fixer now, in the real world sense Smiley Just wanted to clear up any misunderstanding.

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To keep this on the productive tip, in future pdfs, I'd really want to see conversions of the key stuff in it in order for it to justify a purchase -- full PrC writeups even if it means reprinting material from WoF or 10KB (outside of the stuff in the core rulebook for 2.0, which you can assume everybody has,) full class conversions for things like the SFA classes (High-Roller, etc.), and in the case of something like the Shop book, a conversion of the expanded gadget rules.  I know it's more work, but if I'm going to be expected to pay $15 for a product I already own, it's what would be necessary, and given the slow release of products from Crafty, it would be pleasant "hit" while waiting for the next .pdf or book from Flaming Mongoose.

Point taken, and a fair one at that. I doubt very much we will ever trump planned print releases with PDFs, however, as for many, our greatest value is as a source of mechanics (and they may be relying upon new tech still to come in that future volume Smiley). Class conversions may look thin, but it's fair to note that most of our old PrC's have been recycled and presented in 2.0 and WoF - the process of making 2.0 Expert Classes really was an exercise in taking 2 very similar PrC's from first ed and making 1 distinctive version with its own broad niche...sometimes with a 1.0 name. Thus, you probably won't see a 2.0 Doppleganger and a 2.0 Mole and a 2.0 Blank - rather, we have the 2.0 Faceman (which ate most of the Doppleganger) and the 2.0 Mole (which consumed much of the Blank and the old Mole to make one definative organizational infiltrator). So if you feel you're not seeing many classes - well, that's cause they don't fit in 2.0 anymore Smiley However, classes which aren't going to be replicated, such as the SFA Senior Agent Classes, will definately return in the conversion docs...we won't leave you hanging when there's not a replacement.

Quote
That may be the minority view, but as it stands, the pdfs simply aren't anything like a value for me. 

--B

Perfectly alright Smiley I expected the owners of the dead-tree stuff would be the least interested - I see the PDFs as being most valuable to those fans who have come into the game with 2.0, or those who want more portable 1.0. Thanks for the thoughtful feedback, Belisarius (and everybody else)!
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« Reply #14 on: June 18, 2007, 01:01:48 PM »

Well, economic realities also include "doing those conversion is time consuming and may not be a worthwhile or productive use of my writing day if the barrier to entry is preventing them from being purchased." That's part of why we're asking the question. It would be far, far easier to put the Classic Spycraft books out without the conversion notes, let them sell a few dozen copies, and let me get back to working current projects, leaving the topics like psionics or the Fringe for when and if there is a more suitable time for them.
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