AvP: Requiem - How The Hell Did This Happen?

[Crafty_Pat]

The R-rated trailer is here.

Yup. You read that right. It's Rated R.  Halle-frakkin'-lujah, says I.

Now, it could still suck on toast, especially given the early script reviews, but we could get lucky. Stranger things have happened.

[Aragathor]

Wow...

The trailer looks promising.
Now how would you stat out the whip one of the preds is using?

[TheTSKoala]

Forethought to my post:  It can't be any worse than when the Predator and the female from the first movie run down a hall way, in stride, with an alien head and tail as a weapon.

That said, could someone explain to me why they keep going BACK in time?  Alien, Aliens and Alien 3.  All were in the distant future.  (I don't acknowledge Aliens 4 creation.  Much like Ghostbusters 2.)  The model that worked was Space Marines + Being cut off from the rest of the universe + sneaky man eating aliens.

Predator.  You would think the best idea would be.. take Space Marines, who are cut off from the rest of the universe, being eaten by sneaky aliens, and add in the Predators.  Who kill them if they get in the way, but are hunting the hunters.

...instead... we get the first movie.  Scientists vs. Predator vs. Aliens.  Now.. the next movie.. Rednecks vs. Predator vs. Aliens.  Why dear lord why can they not give us Vin Disiel, holding a pulse rifle, screaming "You want some of this?!" as he leads a team of hapless civilians off a deserted military installation, towards their space ship, as the war rages around him.

/end rant.

My early thoughts?  ..at least it's not the first one, part duex.

[Crafty_Pat]

That said, could someone explain to me why they keep going BACK in time?

Um... Because it's cheaper to make them that way? 

Alien, Aliens and Alien 3.  All were in the distant future.

Yup. And I'm with ya, brother. Sadly, the studio seems to have lost its way.

(I don't acknowledge Aliens 4 creation.  Much like Ghostbusters 2.)

I want to like Alien: Ressurrection. I mean, one of the drafts came out of Joss Whedon and at least one of the scripts I read about was genius (the one with multiple Ripleys roaming the station, each less human than the last, and a final reel set on Earth, rather than in orbit above it). But yeah, the... thing that ultimately hit the screen kinda stank up the joint.

The model that worked was Space Marines + Being cut off from the rest of the universe + sneaky man eating aliens.

Well, I think there's a lot of maneuvering room within the classic structure, but I take your point.

Predator.  You would think the best idea would be.. take Space Marines, who are cut off from the rest of the universe, being eaten by sneaky aliens, and add in the Predators.  Who kill them if they get in the way, but are hunting the hunters.

Basically the plot of the original Dark Horse book, yeah.

...instead... we get the first movie.  Scientists vs. Predator vs. Aliens.  Now.. the next movie.. Rednecks vs. Predator vs. Aliens.

LOL!

Why dear lord why can they not give us Vin Disiel, holding a pulse rifle, screaming "You want some of this?!" as he leads a team of hapless civilians off a deserted military installation, towards their space ship, as the war rages around him.

See above. It's all about the $$$.

My early thoughts?  ..at least it's not the first one, part duex.

Precisely. Thus, color me surprised.

[Maldroth]

I must admit there were a few moments from Alien: Resurection that I liked. The mercs seemed like a typical dysfunctional gamer group.

Of course the actor that plays Hellboy also had a good brutish line "Hey what are you asking me for, I just hurt people."

AvP I thought took more after the dark horse material and that was a mix of off world stuff and our modern world. Its been a really long time since I looked at any of that stuff.

[mouthymerc]

I enjoyed Alien: Resurrection right up to the whole hybrid part.  That being said, this looks interesting.  I like Reiko Aylsworth and think that she can pull off a strong female character.  We shall see.

[glimmerrat]

I wanted to like Resurrection, i really did. The problem was twofold:

1) It watched like a comic book. Not bad in itself but it watched like a bad comic book.
2) The hybrid thing was just dumb. Unconvincing, shitty effects, badly scripted, just... yuck.

As for AvP i don't get what people disliked about it. I thoroughly enjoyed it. But then i enjoyed Alien 3 and was willing to admit that while it was still being shown in theatres. I didn't suddenly change my mind ten years later like a lot of people.

[Mister Andersen]

Resurrection's Ripley was just someone who looked and sounded like a woman who'd died 200 odd years previously, and was for all intents and purposes a brand new character - sort of like Matt Damon's character in the Ocean films. That was the film's unrecoverable flaw (well, that and the hybrid).

I loved Alien 3 too. Bummed as hell by it, but loved it.

AvP sucked for a vast multitude of reasons, not least for the vast stupidity of letting the Aliens get anywhere near Earth in the first place, but also the massive disregard for geography, geology and basic physics.

AvP-R though looks like it may well rock on toast, if for no other reason than it at least superficially resembles the originl cross-over comic. Plus, my god, that would have to be the most violentest trailer evah!   

[glimmerrat]

Yeah the acid dribbling slowly onto the guys face was just plain nasty. Methinks this will be the goriest film of the series. I look forward to it.

[arkham618]

Looks like pure splatter to me, which is a pity. The original films derived their horror from the buildup of tension as the protagonists were drawn into the lethal web of the featured monster, which was hardly seen until the climactic confrontation. That is what made both franchises, in fact -- not showing the monster in its full glory, until the very end. The audience was allowed to fill in the blanks with its own imagined horrors, and the effect was far more terrifying than a constant barrage of underwhelming CG creepy-crawlies.

Also, the protracted buildup allowed for actual character development, so that when the protagonists started dying, the audience cared. Whoever edited AvP completely botched the pacing. None of the humans got to evince depth of personality before they were ground into hamburger, and the fatalities came literally one on top of the other, with nary a breather to let the horror set in. And if you pay attention to the new trailer, dozens of humans are dying. (I counted 14 unmistakable civilian fatalities, plus an indeterminate number of casualties among the soldiers.) Including unarmed women and children, at least one of whom is slaughtered by a Predator weapon. To which I can only respond with a stunned "What the f**k?" Does the Predator honor code only extend to Maria Conchita Alonso's wriggling fetus?

Sigh. Why couldn't they simply have adapted the Dark Horse graphic novels? The setting of the first book was a dusty frontier settlement. It's not like they'd have to depict a lot of futuristic infrastructure. Most of the footage could have been shot in the California countryside. Hell, they could have recycled set pieces from Firefly, or something. Instead, we get shotgun-wielding tornado bait standing ringside at Ultimate Alien Smackdown. I almost expected The Rock to swagger onto screen and raise his eyebrow suggestively at one of the Preds. Gag me.

[Mister Andersen]

I was also somewhat surprised at the girl getting offed, but I realised something the second time through: one of the initial facehugger vics is a boy. Similarly, Reiko's line about the military's 1st goal being containment is a give away.

Requiem isn't a hunt, it's an extermination mission to remove the alien contagion. That dead girl was probably incubating a chest burster.

The original films derived their horror from the buildup of tension as the protagonists were drawn into the lethal web of the featured monster, which was hardly seen until the climactic confrontation. That is what made both franchises, in fact -- not showing the monster in its full glory, until the very end. The audience was allowed to fill in the blanks with its own imagined horrors, and the effect was far more terrifying than a constant barrage of underwhelming CG creepy-crawlies.

The only problem is that in the 20+ years since those initial films, we've come to know exactly what the monsters look like - they sell plushies of them

[arkham618]

Requiem isn't a hunt, it's an extermination mission to remove the alien contagion.

Which completely wrecks the continuity of the Alien franchise.

That dead girl was probably incubating a chest burster.

So? The Predators want the Alien larvae to "hatch" so they can hunt them as adults.

The only problem is that in the 20+ years since those initial films, we've come to know exactly what the monsters look like - they sell plushies of them.

That is true. Which is why AvP should have played up the cosmic horror angle of the Aliens, while presenting the homicidal Predator culture as a twisted adaptation to an implacably hostile universe. Unlike most Americans, I loved Alien 3 because it struck home the utter futility of Ripley's struggle. She spent three films fighting the Alien menace, lost everything she loved to it in the process, and then died tragically as the monster erupted from inside her. That is a horror mere splatter cannot convey. If the first AvP had set up a scenario in which it was clear that the Aliens had destroyed countless civilizations in the past and were now a threat to Earth, and that the Predators were the only survivors of a galaxy-spanning apocalypse, that would have been far more disturbing than the poorly conceived splatter-fest that was actually filmed.

[Mister Andersen]

Which completely wrecks the continuity of the Alien franchise.

How, exactly? With the containment mission successful (and it's looks like the human military are going to be helping by "nuking" the site from high altitude), the general populance of Earth has no idea it even happened. And if you recall from Alien, the Company placed Ash on the crew because they knew there was something interesting on Archeron. Maybe when they decoded the distress signal, their analysts noted a correspondence with a hidden military report on the Requiem incident...

So? The Predators want the Alien larvae to "hatch" so they can hunt them as adults.

If you've been paying attention to the AvP comics, the Predators don't knowingly seed sapient-inhabited worlds with bugs, and they (try to) keep scrupulous track of the number of bugs they release: the incident in the first series was a huge SNAFU on their part. It's explained in one of the follow up series that the Predator elders are horribly embarrassed by the number of worlds contaminated by similar incidents and claim parallel evolution to cover the incompetence. However, Earth is such a long standing and popular hunting ground that they'd never be able toget away with that sort of cover up so have to go and exterminate the uncontrolled nest.

Which is why AvP should have played up the cosmic horror angle of the Aliens, while presenting the homicidal Predator culture as a twisted adaptation to an implacably hostile universe. Unlike most Americans, I loved Alien 3 because it struck home the utter futility of Ripley's struggle. She spent three films fighting the Alien menace, lost everything she loved to it in the process, and then died tragically as the monster erupted from inside her. That is a horror mere splatter cannot convey.

The reason why Ripley's death was so poignant in the slaughterhouse of Alien 3 was precisely because she'd survived to the 3rd film.

If the first AvP had set up a scenario in which it was clear that the Aliens had destroyed countless civilizations in the past and were now a threat to Earth, and that the Predators were the only survivors of a galaxy-spanning apocalypse, that would have been far more disturbing than the poorly conceived splatter-fest that was actually filmed.

A poke in the eye with a sharp stick would have been better than the first AvP, which should never have been set on modern Earth in the first place. Now, something set in the time of mythical ancient Greece and the period of Atlantis, on the other hand...

[arkham618]

This could be fun.

How, exactly? With the containment mission successful (and it's looks like the human military are going to be helping by "nuking" the site from high altitude), the general populance of Earth has no idea it even happened. And if you recall from Alien, the Company placed Ash on the crew because they knew there was something interesting on Archeron. Maybe when they decoded the distress signal, their analysts noted a correspondence with a hidden military report on the Requiem incident...

Right. The government incinerates Podunk and blames it on tar'rists, and no one questions why the Ay-rabs wasted a suitcase nuke on Bumfuq, Idaho. You can torture the timeline all you want, but if my disbelief suspenders go sproing, it's because the plot does not fly. A disaster of that magnitude can't be buried. Too many people involved. There will be, if nothing else, Roswell-style conspiracy theories for decades afterward, with the banana-headed insectoids displacing Grays as the quintessential alien invaders in the popular culture. By the time Ripley and crew land on LV-426, the reaction should be "Wow, they're actually real" rather than "HOLY SH*T, what is that thing?!"

If you've been paying attention to the AvP comics, the Predators don't knowingly seed sapient-inhabited worlds with bugs, and they (try to) keep scrupulous track of the number of bugs they release: the incident in the first series was a huge SNAFU on their part.

Are you talking about the original Dark Horse graphic novels, or some post-movie spin-off series? If the latter, I paid zero attention to the merchandising for AvP. I felt sullied just seeing the film in theaters.

It's explained in one of the follow up series that the Predator elders are horribly embarrassed by the number of worlds contaminated by similar incidents and claim parallel evolution to cover the incompetence. However, Earth is such a long standing and popular hunting ground that they'd never be able to get away with that sort of cover up so have to go and exterminate the uncontrolled nest.

Sounds like a retcon hack-job to me.

The reason why Ripley's death was so poignant in the slaughterhouse of Alien 3 was precisely because she'd survived to the 3rd film.

Dude, Newt died. Ripley's entire ordeal at the Acheron colony was nullified in that one moment when the little girl she risked her life to save was declared dead. Ripley had her life stripped away piece by piece by the Aliens. She lost her crew, her biological daughter, her career, little bits of her sanity, her Marine "boyfriend", and finally her surrogate daughter. And then she got impregnated by her most hated and feared enemy and died in a pit of molten lead. And none of it made any difference. The prisoners were slaughtered. The Company was still poking around the galaxy, looking for Aliens (as evidenced by that hideous sequel, which I will not mention by name). Ripley ran up against a cold, unfeeling universe and was destroyed. Lovecraft couldn't have written it better.

A poke in the eye with a sharp stick would have been better than the first AvP, which should never have been set on modern Earth in the first place.

That is also true.

Now, something set in the time of mythical ancient Greece and the period of Atlantis, on the other hand...

We are Spaaaarta!!! *ka-chunk, gurgle, chitter* Holy crap! That thing just skull-f**ked Stelios! RUN!

[Mister Andersen]

Right. The government incinerates Podunk and blames it on tar'rists, and no one questions why the Ay-rabs wasted a suitcase nuke on Bumfuq, Idaho. You can torture the timeline all you want, but if my disbelief suspenders go sproing, it's because the plot does not fly. A disaster of that magnitude can't be buried. Too many people involved. There will be, if nothing else, Roswell-style conspiracy theories for decades afterward, with the banana-headed insectoids displacing Grays as the quintessential alien invaders in the popular culture. By the time Ripley and crew land on LV-426, the reaction should be "Wow, they're actually real" rather than "HOLY SH*T, what is that thing?!"

Interesting fact: the vast majority of young people in China today have little or no knowledge of the events of Tienanmen Square, the event that was predicted by many pundits as the beginning of the end of the Chinese government. Then let us think about the massive historical obfuscation by the Japanese governments about the things their nation did during the second world war that the victors of the conflict have been unable to curtail. Hell, just look at Fox news.

Then consider the events of Outbreak and the fate that was in store for the disease afflicted town had Dustin Hoffman not found the cure in time.

There will be questions, but what are people more likely to believe - a terrorist attack with a weaponised Ebola virus that was being smuggled up from Mexico, or an alien incursion?

Not to mention that in the centuries between now and the setting of Alien, whole nations have risen and fallen, and the Corporations have risen to power doubtlessly with massive control of mainstream information sources.

Are you talking about the original Dark Horse graphic novels [...] Sounds like a retcon hack-job to me.

Yes I'm talking about the comics and their novelisations, and what I describe comes from there, not the movies.

And the details of what happened to Ripley in Alien 3 are in a way tangential to the fact that they happen in the 3rd film. If they were all just back story to a stand alone film, I honestly don't think they'd have the same effect on the audience - we endured all of Ripley's losses through out the series as she did, making them as much ours as hers.

If we go back to Alien, the only thing Ripley has to endear her to the audience is her common sense - which is pretty much the description of Hicks from Aliens