Author Topic: A few new specialties  (Read 6902 times)

Deral

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Re: A few new specialties
« Reply #15 on: December 22, 2010, 12:50:51 PM »
Just like the cultist specialty in the adventurer's companion?

I get that there's precedent, but I misspoke a little, it's the combination of Fortunate and Chance Expert that doesn't sit well with people. Cultist gives Black Cat, which still benefits from additional chance feats but not in as familiar a way as Fortunate. It's definitely pretty similar, but I wouldn't say just like it.

Crafty_Alex

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Re: A few new specialties
« Reply #16 on: December 22, 2010, 02:23:18 PM »
Just like the cultist specialty in the adventurer's companion?

I get that there's precedent, but I misspoke a little, it's the combination of Fortunate and Chance Expert that doesn't sit well with people. Cultist gives Black Cat, which still benefits from additional chance feats but not in as familiar a way as Fortunate. It's definitely pretty similar, but I wouldn't say just like it.

/agree. 3 free action dice a session for what...2 build points? Even at d4s, that combo's busted IMO, particularly when you consider More than Luck costs 3 build points and gives 1 starting AD.
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Big_Jim

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Re: A few new specialties
« Reply #17 on: December 22, 2010, 10:56:25 PM »
Well, with cultist, the cat's out of the bag, so to speak. Any cultist who doesn't take fortunate asap is pretty much inconceivable. In face, I haven't met a player who didn't look at me like I was crazy when I asked them if they would follow up cultist with fortunate. As far as there were concerned, it was a no-brainer.

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Re: A few new specialties
« Reply #18 on: December 22, 2010, 11:10:15 PM »
Well, with cultist, the cat's out of the bag, so to speak. Any cultist who doesn't take fortunate asap is pretty much inconceivable. In face, I haven't met a player who didn't look at me like I was crazy when I asked them if they would follow up cultist with fortunate. As far as there were concerned, it was a no-brainer.

I agree 100% - anyone who has Chance Expert and doesn't take Fortunate might well be crazy.

However, with Cultist, you have to spend one of your precious level feats, rather then having all the goodness handed to you.  If you want to start with the free action dice then you have no feats - you get black cat and grab fortunate and that's it.

Crafty_Alex

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Re: A few new specialties
« Reply #19 on: December 23, 2010, 07:44:59 AM »
Well, with cultist, the cat's out of the bag, so to speak. Any cultist who doesn't take fortunate asap is pretty much inconceivable. In face, I haven't met a player who didn't look at me like I was crazy when I asked them if they would follow up cultist with fortunate. As far as there were concerned, it was a no-brainer.

I agree 100% - anyone who has Chance Expert and doesn't take Fortunate might well be crazy.

However, with Cultist, you have to spend one of your precious level feats, rather then having all the goodness handed to you.  If you want to start with the free action dice then you have no feats - you get black cat and grab fortunate and that's it.

Exactly. I thought there was another Chance Expert instance out there, so I don't know we can blame Cultist for that. I will give it to you that Chance Expert is quite powerful for its price...will keep that in mind.
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Desertpuma

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Re: A few new specialties
« Reply #20 on: December 23, 2010, 10:33:16 AM »
Chance Expert? Are you just talking about taking as many Chance feats in a row?


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Re: A few new specialties
« Reply #21 on: December 23, 2010, 10:49:15 AM »
Chance Expert? Are you just talking about taking as many Chance feats in a row?

It's the Feat Tree Expert benefit for a Specialty, where you count as having 2 more feats in that tree, applied to Chance Feats.

I play an Action Die exploiter character (Sage 1, Priest # with Path of Fortune), and from experience, Chance Expert combined with Fortunate is very powerful.
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Desertpuma

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Re: A few new specialties
« Reply #22 on: December 23, 2010, 10:57:20 AM »
Ah, ok


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Re: A few new specialties
« Reply #23 on: December 23, 2010, 11:04:31 AM »
I play an Action Die exploiter character (Sage 1, Priest # with Path of Fortune), and from experience, Chance Expert combined with Fortunate is very powerful.

Let me add that having Ase Forrester on your side is a great benefit! On d4 action dice, he scores a 10 or 11 at least once every session. Giving him more action dice is a GM nightmare.
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Dhampire

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Re: A few new specialties
« Reply #24 on: December 23, 2010, 01:09:06 PM »
Let me add that having Ase Forrester on your side is a great benefit! On d4 action dice, he scores a 10 or 11 at least once every session. Giving him more action dice is a GM nightmare.

To be fair, the average was about 8-9, until I hit 6th level.  Now, it's about a 12, I think.

Ase has 4d6 + 5d4 AD, with each adding +7 to result, exploding on top 2 rolled, and +1 AD for everybody in a dramatic scene.  (coupled with 5 free hints, each of which could mean more AD)

One of those AD could go to make a rolled 1 a hit, and another to add to damage.

I'm actually debating, at this point, taking a non-Chance feat.

However, with Cultist, you have to spend one of your precious level feats, rather then having all the goodness handed to you.  If you want to start with the free action dice then you have no feats - you get black cat and grab fortunate and that's it.

Exactly. I thought there was another Chance Expert instance out there, so I don't know we can blame Cultist for that. I will give it to you that Chance Expert is quite powerful for its price...will keep that in mind.

I don't know of another FantasyCraft instance of Chance Expert, even in Wyrmstone.

It could get quite bad...

Hypothetical broken Specialty:
[1] Bonus Feat: Fortunate
[1] Chance Expert
[3] More than Luck
and if you really want to fill in the remaining points...
[1] Free Hint
[1] Trick: Return the Favor

4 additional Action dice please (5, if you take a Chance Feat as your level 1 feat).  Ugh.
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Morgenstern

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Re: A few new specialties
« Reply #25 on: December 23, 2010, 02:45:49 PM »
Before people get too wrapped around the axle about 'Chance Expert', keep in mind how powerful ALL feat tree experts are. An extra two d4 action dice are adorable (pats fluffy dice on the head) compared to having 2 extra parries and two extra shield blocks per combat. I'm sorry, but a (typically) +3 bonus to two rolls per session is small potatoes compared to an extra 4 'save to ignore an attack per combat'. You can earn extra action dice by making the game fun. You cannot earn extra parries that way. Chance and spell casting both count feats in fairly direct ways, and are aguably the most powerful of the 'feat tree experts' primarily because how you leverage those two trees is more obvious than the others, but not by much. Terrain tree expert + Animal Companion blows Chance Tree Expert + Fortunate out of the water for raw power. Ditto for any combination that feeds an extra 10 XP value to Personal Lieutenant.

It comes down to ANY Origin gets lopsided if it piles on too many interconnected benefits. If you include a Feat Tree Expert bonus, avoid granting things that directly apply the bonus in the same package. simple as that.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2010, 02:49:12 PM by Morgenstern »
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SilvercatMoonpaw

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Re: A few new specialties
« Reply #26 on: December 23, 2010, 02:51:16 PM »
Before people get too wrapped around the axle about 'Chance Expert', keep in mind how powerful ALL feat tree experts are.
Well, I don't think Species Tree Expert has enough impact yet.

Morgenstern

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Re: A few new specialties
« Reply #27 on: December 23, 2010, 02:55:17 PM »
Before people get too wrapped around the axle about 'Chance Expert', keep in mind how powerful ALL feat tree experts are.
Well, I don't think Species Tree Expert has enough impact yet.

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SilvercatMoonpaw

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Re: A few new specialties
« Reply #28 on: December 23, 2010, 03:44:36 PM »

Big_Jim

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Re: A few new specialties
« Reply #29 on: December 23, 2010, 03:45:54 PM »
Ok.. so the consensus is that Fortunate is too powerful as the bonus feat when coupled with Chance Expert in the Speciality. Doublebond suggested replacing Fortunate with Fortune Favors the Bold as being more daredevil-y. So let's replace it. Now to isn't broken out of the box, but it does encourage the daredevil to be a total chance monkey, which was what I envision a daredevil being to start with. How does that sit with everybody?

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•   Bonus Feat: Fortune Favors the Bold
•   Agile Defense: Your base Defense increases by 1.
•   Chance Expert: You’re considered to have 2 additional Chance feats for any ability based on the number of Chance feats you have.
•   Practiced Acrobatics: If you spend an action die to boost a Acrobatics check and it still fails, you gain the die back after the action is resolved. Against multiple targets you only regain the die if the check fails against all of them.
•   Glory-Bound: You may purchase Heroic Renown for 20 Reputation per Rank (see Fantasy Craft, page 187).