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Author Topic: "Generic" Class?  (Read 2124 times)
corey_s
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« on: December 02, 2010, 07:56:43 PM »

Just wondering:

Anyone have any ideas on how to implement a generic and flexible Class?

Lets just call this hypothetical/experimental Class:  'Hero'  ('Adventurer' is already used as a Specialty).

The goal for my prospective setting/campaign, is to have a _single_ generic Class rather than multiple specific Classes, BUT this Class would be highly flexible - for instance:

* the player chooses what Class Abilities and Feats on each level

* the player chooses how to distribute points amongst the BAB, Fort, Ref, Will, Def, Init, Lifestyle and Legend on each level

* the player chooses Class Skills

Anyone try something like this?  Or have any suggestions... tips... advice, warnings, etc?


Thanks!



« Last Edit: December 02, 2010, 07:58:32 PM by corey_s » Logged
Crafty_Pat
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« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2010, 08:00:10 PM »

We tried our hand at this with a Spycraft 2.0 product called Back to Basics.
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Patrick Kapera
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corey_s
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« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2010, 08:04:59 PM »


... another route I'm contemplating, along the same basic lines:

Using the NPC generation rules for generating PCs also... seems like it might make for a nice quick streamlined method for creating basically what amounts to classless characters... 

I don't know, still very new to FC - I've had the pdf which I've browsed frequently, but just the other day I finally purchased the physical book, so I'm just now able to really sit down with it - so any advice is appreciated, and sorry if these are stupid/naive ideas.

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corey_s
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« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2010, 08:10:28 PM »

We tried our hand at this with a Spycraft 2.0 product called Back to Basics.

Cool - I'll go ahead and buy the pdf tomorrow for reference purposes, but - do you think it will be helpful/appropriate for Fantasy Craft?  I mean, will I be able to fairly easily "port" those SC 'basic classes' into FC 'basic classes'?


Thanks!
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« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2010, 08:26:28 PM »

We tried our hand at this with a Spycraft 2.0 product called Back to Basics.

Cool - I'll go ahead and buy the pdf tomorrow for reference purposes, but - do you think it will be helpful/appropriate for Fantasy Craft?  I mean, will I be able to fairly easily "port" those SC 'basic classes' into FC 'basic classes'?

It's not entirely class-less, replacing the Spycraft 2.0 base classes with six "basic classes," which roughly correspond to what was done in d20 Modern (though with our particular mechanical slant, of course). Their structure and universal use of "Knacks" should be enough to give you a solid baseline, however, and yes, the majority of what was designed for Spycraft 2.0 translates quite well to Fantasy Craft.

Good luck!
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« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2010, 09:15:34 PM »

Another way to go about this is taking a look at tweaking the Priest class. It's probably the most flexible for what the player gets to choose as far as his abilities go.
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corey_s
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« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2010, 10:01:11 PM »

Cool - I'll go ahead and buy the pdf tomorrow for reference purposes, but - do you think it will be helpful/appropriate for Fantasy Craft?  I mean, will I be able to fairly easily "port" those SC 'basic classes' into FC 'basic classes'?

It's not entirely class-less, replacing the Spycraft 2.0 base classes with six "basic classes," which roughly correspond to what was done in d20 Modern (though with our particular mechanical slant, of course). Their structure and universal use of "Knacks" should be enough to give you a solid baseline, however, and yes, the majority of what was designed for Spycraft 2.0 translates quite well to Fantasy Craft.

Good luck!

Sounds like it might be promising, I'll check it out and will likely be posting some questions later next week!


Another way to go about this is taking a look at tweaking the Priest class. It's probably the most flexible for what the player gets to choose as far as his abilities go.

Thanks for the tip! Though after looking over the Priest again, I'm not certain it'll suffice for a template towards what I'm after...

Here's kinda what I'm thinking, something along the lines of:


Class: 'Hero'
--------------

Class Skills:  select 10
Skill Points: 6 + Int
Vitality: 9 + Con
Starting Proficiencies: 4

Core Ability:  N/A

Level 1:
* distribute 7 points (max +2 per feature)amongst BAB, Fort, Ref, Will, Def, Init, Lifestyle, Legend
* select one Class Ability from list

Level 2:
* distribute 7 points  (max +1 per feature) amongst BAB, Fort, Ref, Will, Def, Init, Lifestyle, Legend
* select one Class Ability from list

Level 3:
* distribute 4 points (max +1 per feature) amongst BAB, Fort, Ref, Will, Def, Init, Lifestyle, Legend
* select one Bonus Feat

Level 4:
etc, etc



... I know that leaves more than a few details out:  Spellcasting Level, Spell Points, altering starting Skill Points, altering starting Vitality, altering  starting Proficiencies, etc. 

... but maybe it sets the basic gist:  1 single Class, highly customizable (effectively making the setting Classless (but with Levels)). 

Feasible?  Or totally broken from the start?

« Last Edit: December 02, 2010, 10:29:16 PM by corey_s » Logged
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« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2010, 10:07:32 PM »

The level of the spells you can cast follows the "Circle of Power" progression in FantasyCraft, which is pretty slow.  You don't get to cast level 1 spells until 3rd level of Mage.  I am not certain how to keep that balanced.

How broken would it be to have Circle of Power IX at level 9 with only level 9's Spell Point pool?  (Yeah, I'll go look stuff up and have some sort of idea later, but I want to throw the question out now before...  Something shiny!)
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« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2010, 11:27:36 PM »


... another route I'm contemplating, along the same basic lines:

Using the NPC generation rules for generating PCs also... seems like it might make for a nice quick streamlined method for creating basically what amounts to classless characters... 

Friend of mine has been running a mini-campaign with FC this way.  He hasn't seen any issues.  However, the GM has to keep a special eye on certain types of insanity but otherwise, very workable.
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« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2010, 02:15:34 AM »

I was going to suggest Sage.
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LHG
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« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2010, 09:18:15 AM »

I was thinking about this, too, but haven't had time to do anything with it, so far.  If you don't mind, I'd love to see what you come up with.  I much prefer classless systems, but my players all prefer class-based systems.  It sounds like you may be onto a workable compromise.
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corey_s
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« Reply #11 on: December 03, 2010, 03:50:47 PM »


... another route I'm contemplating, along the same basic lines:

Using the NPC generation rules for generating PCs also... seems like it might make for a nice quick streamlined method for creating basically what amounts to classless characters... 

Friend of mine has been running a mini-campaign with FC this way.  He hasn't seen any issues.  However, the GM has to keep a special eye on certain types of insanity but otherwise, very workable.


Wow - cool;  does your friend have any additional/supplemental rules/advice written up for this?

How does he deal with Experience and Leveling?

I was thinking about using the 'Playing Without Experience' option (pg. 342) - characters would level accordingly:

Levels 1-4:  characters Level up once every Season of game-time
Levels 5-10: characters Level up once every two Seasons of game-time
Levels 11-17: characters Level up once every Year of game-time
Levels 18-20: characters Level up once every two Years of game-time


... but aside from determining when to Level up (taken care of above), how do I determine how to apply a new Level to a PC created with the NPC generation rules?



« Last Edit: December 03, 2010, 04:07:17 PM by corey_s » Logged
ludomastro
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« Reply #12 on: December 03, 2010, 05:32:33 PM »

@ corey_s
Nah, he was doing it more as a thought experiment than anything.  If you were serious about doing it, you might use some ideas from the Mutants and Masterminds game from Green Ronin.  Basically, each "level" would provide the PCs with a small pool of 'XP' to buy new things.

Have you seen the outlines for the MasterCraft class structures?

I'm on a short break at work and don't have the link handy.
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EloiseCartwright
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« Reply #13 on: December 04, 2010, 04:20:30 AM »


Class: 'Hero'
--------------

Class Skills:  select 10
Skill Points: 6 + Int
Vitality: 9 + Con
Starting Proficiencies: 4

Core Ability:  N/A

Level 1:
* distribute 7 points (max +2 per feature)amongst BAB, Fort, Ref, Will, Def, Init, Lifestyle, Legend
* select one Class Ability from list

Level 2:
* distribute 7 points  (max +1 per feature) amongst BAB, Fort, Ref, Will, Def, Init, Lifestyle, Legend
* select one Class Ability from list

Level 3:
* distribute 4 points (max +1 per feature) amongst BAB, Fort, Ref, Will, Def, Init, Lifestyle, Legend
* select one Bonus Feat
In the usual classes the tables for BAB, SAves, etc are different, I'm not convinced that giving 7 points to spread between them is a good idea.
Personally I'd have the player set them at 1st level using the standard arrays (8pts, Poor = 0 pts, Medium = 1 pt & good = 2 pts) and have them advance on the usual lines.
Then I would get Back to Basics and follow the standard progression there (Talent/Feat on alternate levels) and just allow the 'Hero' access to all talents. Just need to create a couple more talent trees for Spellcasting and Alignment Paths.
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corey_s
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« Reply #14 on: December 04, 2010, 04:53:40 PM »

In the usual classes the tables for BAB, SAves, etc are different, I'm not convinced that giving 7 points to spread between them is a good idea.
Personally I'd have the player set them at 1st level using the standard arrays (8pts, Poor = 0 pts, Medium = 1 pt & good = 2 pts) and have them advance on the usual lines.
Then I would get Back to Basics and follow the standard progression there (Talent/Feat on alternate levels) and just allow the 'Hero' access to all talents. Just need to create a couple more talent trees for Spellcasting and Alignment Paths.

Right-on, thanks for the suggestions! I haven't yet purchased Back to Basics - hopefully will do today; but I have been going over the wiki.

I'm still far too new to the system to have any real sense of confidence or competence in what I'm hoping to achieve (a single highly flexible "meta-class" for a Mouse Guard campaign)... I'm still in acclimation and info-gathering mode.   (c8=

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