Fantasy Craft Second Print vs D&D 4E

[Morfedel]

I've not had a problem with 4e; nothing has prevented me from heavy roleplaying, and in fact, I have GMed sessions where we never rolled an initiative check either.

That being the case, however, I have to admit, I found the skills, and skill-challenges, a bit weak. More than a bit, actually.

So, while I disagree that 4e is just a board game simulator or mmo manual, I WILL agree that it is more focused on combat.

I do like FC better for a couple of different reasons: magic items aren't required, creatures can essentially "level" with the PCs, and it's stronger in non-combat than 4e.

I also like some of the subsystems, like rank/renown.

So, yeah, I actually like 4e a lot, but I'm not a fanboy convinced that it's perfect in every way.

Which reminds me... how fast or slow does FC combat go in comparison to 3.5 and 4e games?

[Typhon]

Which reminds me... how fast or slow does FC combat go in comparison to 3.5 and 4e games?

About the only thing that slows it down is keeping track of the different damage types and keeping track of the mods related to the different effects due to ranks of the subdual/stress.
A second thing is getting used to whatever particular feats/tricks you have to use in combat. If you've played 4e then you're probably used to the whole feats thing so shouldn't be too much of an adjustment. That just leaves knowing your tricks/stances/advanced actions as options in combat.
Personally I find the combat to be a lot more entertaining. Will be more so at higher levels, I'm sure!

But that's about it. I like how the mook level characters die easy (even instantly with many sup lv feats), moves the "story" along faster (and much less chance of the heroes croaking to some lucky roll of the GM) and gives the players a feeling of being a main character in a movie (as far as a level of importance). The combat with villians (named bad guys) usually drag on but hey! they're supposed to.

The hardest part for 4e to get used to is the diplomacy aspect of FC since very very little of and D&D is ever focused on politics/intrigue and the xp "value" of such an aspect for characters.

[@stroVal]

Which reminds me... how fast or slow does FC combat go in comparison to 3.5 and 4e games?

About the only thing that slows it down is keeping track of the different damage types and keeping track of the mods related to the different effects due to ranks of the subdual/stress.
A second thing is getting used to whatever particular feats/tricks you have to use in combat. If you've played 4e then you're probably used to the whole feats thing so shouldn't be too much of an adjustment. That just leaves knowing your tricks/stances/advanced actions as options in combat.
Personally I find the combat to be a lot more entertaining. Will be more so at higher levels, I'm sure!

But that's about it. I like how the mook level characters die easy (even instantly with many sup lv feats), moves the "story" along faster (and much less chance of the heroes croaking to some lucky roll of the GM) and gives the players a feeling of being a main character in a movie (as far as a level of importance). The combat with villians (named bad guys) usually drag on but hey! they're supposed to.

The hardest part for 4e to get used to is the diplomacy aspect of FC since very very little of and D&D is ever focused on politics/intrigue and the xp "value" of such an aspect for characters.

So overall how would you compare 4e battle to FC?

[Typhon]

Depends on the situation. It's kinda hard to get into a "I have NO idea how that works" situation in FC once you've played through the first 4 adventures. You pretty much get the hang of it so you shouldn't get into too many delays there.
E4 was awhile ago for me (Temple of Elemental Evil 2...and I was a thief, rough times lol). Still seemed slow compared to FC, if memory serves.
If you're really into the combat, I think FC offers a bit more cool factor with it's stances and tricks on top of the slick feat attacks.
With FC, like I said before, once you get used to the options you have (via feats, tricks and actions) then combat goes a lot faster.

The plus side, all you need is ONE book to run the games. Just get the basic PDF and one adventure. Much less than just about any other system.

[Morfedel]

Depends on the situation. It's kinda hard to get into a "I have NO idea how that works" situation in FC once you've played through the first 4 adventures. You pretty much get the hang of it so you shouldn't get into too many delays there.

Uh, what 4 adventures?

[Typhon]

Spur, Darkest, Vault...and thought there was another one...guess just 3 then =P

[Arakor]

Spur, Darkest, Vault...and thought there was another one...guess just 3 then =P

You might be thinking of "A Keg for Dragon" by Reality Blur Studios as part of the Old School Fantasy line.

[Doublebond]

Spur, Darkest, Vault...and thought there was another one...guess just 3 then =P

You might be thinking of "A Keg for Dragon" by Reality Blur Studios as part of the Old School Fantasy line.

The Old School fantasy line itself now has three adventures.

[Arakor]

Spur, Darkest, Vault...and thought there was another one...guess just 3 then =P

You might be thinking of "A Keg for Dragon" by Reality Blur Studios as part of the Old School Fantasy line.

The Old School fantasy line itself now has three adventures.

I know ... I have them all. 
In fact, I won the second one for my FC characters that I submitted to their contest!

But the second and third adventures are nasty ... I can't wait to run them!

[@stroVal]

(Temple of Elemental Evil 2...and I was a thief, rough times lol)

Oh they made a 4th edition sequel to the original one? Or is it after ''Return to the temple of elemental evil"  of 3E ?

[Morfedel]

Spur, Darkest, Vault...and thought there was another one...guess just 3 then =P

You might be thinking of "A Keg for Dragon" by Reality Blur Studios as part of the Old School Fantasy line.

The Old School fantasy line itself now has three adventures.

I know ... I have them all. 
In fact, I won the second one for my FC characters that I submitted to their contest!

But the second and third adventures are nasty ... I can't wait to run them!

And which 2 are those, then?   

[Desertpuma]

I'd rather just convert some of the older 1st, 2nd, or Dungeon Crawl Classics modules. This would include Temple of Elelmental Evil amongst many others.

[Wolverine]

But the second and third adventures are nasty ... I can't wait to run them!

And which 2 are those, then?   

Darkness Over Keryhk Nhor and Hunger of the Iron Mage - you can buy them both here.

[Morfedel]

So, if one were to run the FC Hugh adventures, are they designed to go un order? If not, which order would you suggest running them in, and why?

Same question, for the old school fantasy adventures?

And if you were to run all 6, what order, and why?

[Gentry]

Time of High Adventure includes my suggestions for how to run the three official FC adventures in order. Running them Darkest Hour, Black Spur, Vault is what I consider easiest, but depending on how you choose to fluff them out in your game world they could happen in whatever order you see fit.