Dungeon Crawl

[@stroVal]

But what I really wanted is what constitutes a good Dungeon Crawl adventure in your mind.
Your personal opinion...

[ArawnNox]

Classic dungeon crawls, from the 70's and 80's esp. always felt a little contrived. On close inspectionlots of things often don't make sense.

I think Dessert Puma's 6 points are a very good start. Continuing in that vien consider "what are real 'dungeons' like?
The true 70's dungeon has no real world equivalent but the real world does have vast cave systems, mines, pyramids, ziggurats, cliff-towns...
By researching these a little perhaps you can make your dungeon seem less contrived esp. if you keep an eye on Puma's questions while your reading.

Yes most of the time they dont even make sense construction-wise.
It's like you enter a world unrelated to the one above the ground were time doesn't flow and rooms are different domains were monsters exist without outside influence awaiting to be slain by tomb raiders/heroes

Wasn't that one of the old ADnD excuses for monster populated dungeons? That you could build a dungeon with a certain type of terrain and it would attract monsters that prefer that terrain? Then adventurers could come and clean it out?

[Sletchman]

Wasn't that one of the old ADnD excuses for monster populated dungeons? That you could build a dungeon with a certain type of terrain and it would attract monsters that prefer that terrain? Then adventurers could come and clean it out?

That's pretty cool - like a super dangerous live fire exercise.  It would totally fit a certain type of world.

[@stroVal]

Classic dungeon crawls, from the 70's and 80's esp. always felt a little contrived. On close inspectionlots of things often don't make sense.

I think Dessert Puma's 6 points are a very good start. Continuing in that vien consider "what are real 'dungeons' like?
The true 70's dungeon has no real world equivalent but the real world does have vast cave systems, mines, pyramids, ziggurats, cliff-towns...
By researching these a little perhaps you can make your dungeon seem less contrived esp. if you keep an eye on Puma's questions while your reading.

Yes most of the time they dont even make sense construction-wise.
It's like you enter a world unrelated to the one above the ground were time doesn't flow and rooms are different domains were monsters exist without outside influence awaiting to be slain by tomb raiders/heroes

Wasn't that one of the old ADnD excuses for monster populated dungeons? That you could build a dungeon with a certain type of terrain and it would attract monsters that prefer that terrain? Then adventurers could come and clean it out?

I am not sure to be honest...
ADND moved away from Dungeon crawl and 1E mentality -from what I remember- it was when RPGs became epic.They still retained some of the D.crawl elements but within the context of a bigger picture.
In a way ADND even foreshadowed and paved the way for the epic plots we have had in crpgs from the late 90s till now

[Golden Dragon]

This plays into the idea of the Five Room Dungeon that I frequently use as a template:

http://www.roleplayingtips.com/readissue.php?number=156#tips

Let me put in my vote for this article.

Dragon magazine once had an article that was quite similar. And with Crafty adventure structure, a five-room dungeon can easily be planned as a five-scene dungeon. This is cinematic role=playing, and I don't see many movies focus on the hero(es) mapping out the dungeon as they go along. 

[@stroVal]

Golden Dragon, its how John Rogers put it:

"I honestly think that one of the reasons fantasy comics* have had a hard time is because they try to ape the epic scope of fantasy literature, and frankly, can’t.  It’s a different medium.  There’s atill a big world out there in the background, but we see it all through the eyes of five very scrappy, practical adventurers.  A bit more of Erickson’s Bridgeburners or the Black Company than Lord of the Rings."
[  http://www.newsarama.com/comics/dungeons-dragons-rogers-idw-100916.html ]

* and films I must add here...
They all try to go the Lotr way and fail..epically

[ArawnNox]

Golden Dragon, its how John Rogers put it:

"I honestly think that one of the reasons fantasy comics* have had a hard time is because they try to ape the epic scope of fantasy literature, and frankly, can’t.  It’s a different medium.  There’s atill a big world out there in the background, but we see it all through the eyes of five very scrappy, practical adventurers.  A bit more of Erickson’s Bridgeburners or the Black Company than Lord of the Rings."
[  http://www.newsarama.com/comics/dungeons-dragons-rogers-idw-100916.html ]

* and films I must add here...
They all try to go the Lotr way and fail..epically

This kindof applies to what me and my roommate were saying about Ridley Scott's "Robin Hood" movie: That it was too epic for it's subject matter, that the big battles and large scope was shoehorned into what should have been a movie focused around Robin, Marian, and Robin's companions.

[@stroVal]

Golden Dragon, its how John Rogers put it:

"I honestly think that one of the reasons fantasy comics* have had a hard time is because they try to ape the epic scope of fantasy literature, and frankly, can’t.  It’s a different medium.  There’s atill a big world out there in the background, but we see it all through the eyes of five very scrappy, practical adventurers.  A bit more of Erickson’s Bridgeburners or the Black Company than Lord of the Rings."
[  http://www.newsarama.com/comics/dungeons-dragons-rogers-idw-100916.html ]

* and films I must add here...
They all try to go the Lotr way and fail..epically

This kindof applies to what me and my roommate were saying about Ridley Scott's "Robin Hood" movie: That it was too epic for it's subject matter, that the big battles and large scope was shoehorned into what should have been a movie focused around Robin, Marian, and Robin's companions.

I haven't seen it but albeit me liking the Scott brothers and Crowe  I steered clear.
The reason is I am tired of the new trend of ''realistic,historic, accuracy'' (which in the end fails at that too)
Hood,Achilles etc are folklore heroes..there is a historical base around their creation but in the end that's not what we want to see(and loved in the first place)...Why not try and transfer the original story for once? You d be amazed with the results(but I am getting sidetracked with this)

[Doublebond]

This link is relevant to your interests.

[Dhampire]

If you're really concerned about how to make a Dungeon Crawl interesting, you might check out an article on The Alexandrian, Jaquaying the Dungeon.

[@stroVal]

Thank you Doublebond and Dhampire
Also I realized that most of the quests in the Thief games are a very good example of dungeon crawling with depth

[Foghorn]

I also have to add after doing some real life dungeon crawling today, check out Cappadocia in Turkey and their underground cities (Derinkuyu is where I'm going tomorrow). I'm still in Turkey for the rest of the week, but I hope to get some of the pictures up next week.

The architecture and way the cities and churches are set up around here are fascinating and might give you some ideas on how to describe things or even be able to pull up some real life pictures to set the mood for where the characters are getting themselves into trouble.

[Grimace]

If you're really concerned about how to make a Dungeon Crawl interesting, you might check out an article on The Alexandrian, Jaquaying the Dungeon.

That was a very interesting article!  Far too many of the dungeons I've gone through are very one dimensional and linear.  This makes for a rather dull experience and a less feeling of exploration.

Gives me a lot to think about in my upcoming campaign.

[@stroVal]

I also have to add after doing some real life dungeon crawling today, check out Cappadocia in Turkey and their underground cities (Derinkuyu is where I'm going tomorrow). I'm still in Turkey for the rest of the week, but I hope to get some of the pictures up next week.

The architecture and way the cities and churches are set up around here are fascinating and might give you some ideas on how to describe things or even be able to pull up some real life pictures to set the mood for where the characters are getting themselves into trouble.

I think they have temples carved inside cliffs there, like Petra.
 That's a must for an ancient evil sacred ground!

[Mister Andersen]

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