Fantasy Craft and Forgotten Realms

[Krensky]

That's basically what I was saying.

Each regional/cultural/ethnic/social/organizational group could have a list of common talents for them. Not a 'you must choose from this list' sort of thing, more that this list of talents are particularly common for this group. Then you can also have an epitome talent. One that is the very embodiment of the common traits of the group.

This is really a good bit of advice for anyone world building, and doesn't need to necessarily be limited to talents either. You could write up a list of common specialties in the Imperial Legions, and then also write up a Legionnaire specialty for those that are the concentrated distillation of what a legionnaire is and is expected to be.

[Desertpuma]

I figure to be doing something similar for the humans in my home game.

[pawsplay]

Yes, I must admit because of the inherent versatility of the FC system, trying to force in a prestige class seems redundent; whereas you could merely state that a particular combination of feats and existing classes is the FR equivalent.

As Pawsplay states, you could be considered an Arcane Archer, once you have 6 spell points, a level in Rune Knight and Bow Basics. The only reason to create an equivalent expert class, would be to further specialise the character's role.

It occurs to me that if you wanted to reinforce those archetypes, you could create Arcane Archer as a Master Class, fitting on top of Rune Knight.

[Morgenstern]

I've got an arcane archer base class sitting around here somewhere... (20 levels of magic arrow goodness )

[Morgenstern]

That's basically what I was saying.

Each regional/cultural/ethnic/social/organizational group could have a list of common talents for them. Not a 'you must choose from this list' sort of thing, more that this list of talents are particularly common for this group. Then you can also have an epitome talent. One that is the very embodiment of the common traits of the group.

This is really a good bit of advice for anyone world building, and doesn't need to necessarily be limited to talents either. You could write up a list of common specialties in the Imperial Legions, and then also write up a Legionnaire specialty for those that are the concentrated distillation of what a legionnaire is and is expected to be.

*thumbs up*

[Arioch]

@Krensky

Then you can also have an epitome talent. One that is the very embodiment of the common traits of the group.

Why not? The list in the my previous post can include an epitome talent for each entry, if a Master so choose.  I also have the feeling that using a list can capture more the original Forgotten Realms flavour, but that is only my opinion.
Actually I think that having a single epitome talent for each subrace is not enough to portrait the complexity of a whole ethnic group, but if coupled with others maybe it could do the work.

Again: I prefer to exploit all the existing material before creating new stuff. That said: my original idea for an improvement of the list concept was to slightly modify each talent in a list to better adapt it to the group it represent. Example:

Netherese Pureblood: adaptation of the Ruthless talent with one of the Educated aspects.
Tribesman of Nar: adaptation of the Ruthless talent with one of the Savage aspects.

In both races the Ruthless trait is manifested but with a different shade.

[Arioch]

I've got an arcane archer base class sitting around here somewhere... (20 levels of magic arrow goodness )

WOW! Can we see it??

[Wolverine]

Actually I think that having a single epitome talent for each subrace is not enough to portrait the complexity of a whole ethnic group, but if coupled with others maybe it could do the work.

Now that you mention subraces, something just slotted into place in my green tea infused brain: Instead of making Talents for each region, why not have a series of two-tier Species feats, just like those for each of the non-human races. That way your Netherese can be Ruthless while still being an example of the best (or worst) their nation has to offer. It would take a little more work, but would also be a good way to get some bonus equipment in there while still keeping things balanced.

[Arioch]

Ok... sorry for the huge post! The suggested Specialties for human regions!

Still needing suggestions about the bonuses for choosing a combination of the suggested talent + specialty + god(if priest)
(I liked the jameswllorimer suggestion)

Please, feel free to add your own suggestions!
Note: the list is incomplete as many countries are to be handled.

Region	Recomended Subraces	Favorite Deities	Recomended Specialties	Bonuses
Aglarond	Chondathan,	Chauntea,	Highwayman,
	Damaran,	Selûne,	Adventurer
	Rashemi	Valkur	Ranger
			Tribesman
			Vanguard
			Warden
Amn	Calishite,	Bane,	Beggar,Artisan,WIzard
	Tethyrian	Chauntea,	Jester,fencer
		Cyric,Selûne,	Mercenary,Guardian
		Shar,Sune,	Slave,Merchant
		Waukeen	Aristocrat,Rogue
			Criminal,Swindler
Calimshan	Calishite,	Azuth,Ilmater,	Beggar,fencer
	Tethyrian	Shar,	Jester,Mystic
		Sharess,	Slave,Rogue
		Siamorphe,	Schoolar,Sorcerer
		Talos,Tyr	Aristocrat
			Artisan
			Physician
Cormyr	Chondathan,	Chauntea,	Cavalier,Ranger
	Tethyrian	Deneir,Helm,	Jester,Wizard
		Lathander,	Paesant
		Lliira,Milil,	Archer
		Selûne,	Aristocrat
		Silvanus,	Artisan
		Tempus,	Dragoon
		Tymora,Tyr,	fighter
		Waukeen	Lord
The Dalelands	Chondathan,	Chauntea,	Adventurer
	Vaasan	Lathander,	Highwayman
		Mielikki,	Paesant,Mystic
		Oghma,	Archer,Ranger
		Shaundakul,	Artisan
		Silvanus,	Bard
		Tempus,	Dragoon
		Torm,Tyr	Druid
			fighter
Damara	Damaran,	Ilmater,	Cultist,Mystic
	Chondathan	Silvanus,	Adventurer
		Tempus	Artisan
			fighter
			Fist
			Lord
			Miner
The Dragon Coast	Chondathan,	Helm,Mask,	Beggar,Lord
	Tethyrian	Nobanion,	Cultist,Swindler
		Sune,	Highwayman
		Tempus,	Mercenary
		Tymora,	Slave
		Umberlee	Artisan
			Criminal
The Great Dale	Chondathan,	Shaundakul,	Highwayman
	Damaran,Nar	Silvanus,	Paesant
		Talona	Druid
			Fist
			Ranger
Impiltur	Chondathan,	Ilmater,	Cavalier,Ranger
	Damaran	Selûne,	Cultist,Vanguard
		Tymora,	Artisan,Wizard
		Valkur,	fighter
		Waukeen	Guardian
			Lord
			Mystic
			Physician
The Moonsea	Chondathan,	Bane,Cyric,	Beggar,fighter
	Damaran,	Loviatar,	Cultist,Lord
	Vaasan	Mask,Talona,	Highwayman,Ranger
		Talos,Tyr	Mercenary,Rogue
			Archer,ShieldBearer
			Criminal
Narfell	Damaran,Nar	Talos,	Cultist
		Tempus,	Barbarian
		Waukeen	Nomad
			Ranger
			Shaman
			Tribesman
The North	Illuskan	Auril,Deneir,	Highwayman
		Eldath,Lurue,	Paesant,Nomad
		Malar,	Archer,Ranger
		Mielikki,Milil,	Mercenary,Tribesman
		Mystra,	Barbarian,Warden
		Oghma,arrows*	Bard
		Selûne,	Corsair
		Shaundakul,	Criminal
		Shiallia,	Druid
		Silvanus,	fighter
		Talos,	Lord
		Tempus	Miner
Rashemen	Nar,Rashemi	Chauntea,	Barbarian,Warden
		Mielikki,	Druid
		Mystra	fighter
			Nomad
			Ranger
			Shaman
			Tribesman
			Vanguard
Sembia	Chondathan	Azuth,Deneir,	Acrobat,fencer
		Lathander,	Beggar,fighter
		Loviatar,	Cultist,Lord
		Mystra,Sune,	Jester,Merchant
		Tymora,Tyr,	Slave,Swindler
		Waukeen	Artisan
			Guardian
Netheril Empire	Netherese,Shade	Shar	Adept,Artisan
			Cultist,fighter
			Slave,Sorcerer
			Schoolar,Wizard
			Aristocrat
Silverymoon (Luruar)	Chondathan,	Deneir,Lurue,	Acrobat,Druid
	Illuskan	Mielikki,Milil,	Paesant,fighter
		Mystra,	Schoolar,Lord
		Oghma,	Archer,Physician
		Silvanus	Artisan,Warden
			Bard,Wizard
			Cavalier
The Sword Coast	Illuskan,	Bane,	Beggar,fighter
	Tethyrian	Beshaba,	Cultist,Guardian
		Chauntea,	Highwayman,Musketeer
		Lathander,	Mercenary
		Mask,Mystra,	Paesant
		Tempus	Artisan
			Corsair
Tethyr	Calishite,	Helm,	Jester,Bard
	Tethyrian	Ilmater,	Schoolar,fencer
		Siamorphe,	Adventurer,fighter
		Torm,Tyr	Aristocrat,Lord
			Artisan,Physician
Thay	Mulan,Rashemi	Bane,	Cultist
		Gargauth,	Slave
		Kossuth,	Schoolar
		Loviatar,	Sorcerer
		Shar,Talona
Waterdeep	Chondathan,	Faerûnian	Acrobat,fencer
	Illuskan,	pantheon	Beggar,Lord
	Tethyrian		Cultist,Physician
			Jester,Wizard
			Schoolar
			Aristocrat
			Artisan
			Bard
			Cavalier
The Western Heartlands	Calishite,	Deneir,Helm,	Cultist,Shield Bearer
	Chondathan	Kelemvor,	Highwayman
	Gur	Lathander,	Artisan
		Oghma,	Cavalier
		Tempus	Fighter
			Guardian
			Lord
			Nomad

Cleric: can hail from every were provided theys stick to the suggested deities for that region. Note that in post 1479 Realms Tyr, Mystra, Azuth and Mask are dead; Lathander=Amanautor;

Gladiator: typical of the Old Empires(destroyed in post 1479 FR) and Chessenta (Not yet implemented)

[Arioch]

Actually I think that having a single epitome talent for each subrace is not enough to portrait the complexity of a whole ethnic group, but if coupled with others maybe it could do the work.

Now that you mention subraces, something just slotted into place in my green tea infused brain: Instead of making Talents for each region, why not have a series of two-tier Species feats, just like those for each of the non-human races. That way your Netherese can be Ruthless while still being an example of the best (or worst) their nation has to offer. It would take a little more work, but would also be a good way to get some bonus equipment in there while still keeping things balanced.

Interesting! Can be those Species Feats you are talking about a way to give a bonus to those adhering to the suggested options? I mean: if you engineered your Netherese PC in a typical way, you gain the access to special Species feats otherwise not available. In this way, you have still to expend your talents (=the game is still balanced) but they are a sort of elite feats, worthing the PC effort...

[Wolverine]

Interesting! Can be those Species Feats you are talking about a way to give a bonus to those adhering to the suggested options? I mean: if you engineered your Netherese PC in a typical way, you gain the access to special Species feats otherwise not available. In this way, you have still to expend your talents (=the game is still balanced) but they are a sort of elite feats, worthing the PC effort...

I think I see what you're getting at. Would it be as simple as putting the specific regional Origin options as requirements for each feat?

[jameswllorimer]

This is sort of a pulling together post of all the great ideas on here. Use it or don't use it, but @Arioch I would pick what mechanics you're going to use before you develop any further. Anyway...

I don't think you need to define both Talents and Specialities for each region. It again becomes to constricting to pick "one choice from list A and once choice from list B" to become the archetypal person from region X. Personally I would stick with Krensky's suggestion, and have a choice of "regional talents" as well as one "epitome talent"
e.g. Calishite: charismatic, agile, intelligent, cunning and Calishite

You could further tie this in with Antilles's suggestion that if you pick one of this regional talents, you receive a small benefit bonus, showing your strong heritage.

If you then wanted to allow development along regional, this would be the conversion of FR feats into compatible FC ones (or use exisiting ones e.g. FR's Calishite "Bloodline of Fire" could become FC's Elemental Heritage {forgive no rulebook around, that might be a little off})

Thoughts? Additions? Any further ideas?

[Arioch]

I think I see what you're getting at. Would it be as simple as putting the specific regional Origin options as requirements for each feat?

Yes, it would! We can call the prerequisite something like "Typical X" (X = the human subrace chosen). You are a Typical X if you select your human talent AND your specialty from the suggested ones. If your starting class is Priest, then you have also to choose your deity among those listed for your home region (a third prerequisite?).

EDIT: after the post of jameswllorimer I haven't seen!

@jameswllorimer: the idea of the epitome talent from Krensky is a really good one! I'm not following that idea right now for 2 reasons:

1) To have only one talent representing the epitome seems to me more "restricting" than the possibility to choose among a list of talents ALL giving the same possibility to let you play an archetypical human from that region (provided that you couple that talent with a suggested specialty). If you are not an archetypical human, you don't loose anything, simply miss the access to some minor bonus or to some feats.  

2) It's easier to adapt than to conceive new talents to cover the various subraces... A thing that can be done later, after all the other topics needing conversion are covered... I think that can be good to have a first playable conversion system that can be further improved (but again, that's only my personal idea... If you think we should elaborate more about this, is fine for me!) The conversions developed up to now are open enough to allow subsequent improvement.

[jameswllorimer]

I think I see what you're getting at. Would it be as simple as putting the specific regional Origin options as requirements for each feat?

Yes, it would! We can call the prerequisite something like "Typical X" (X = the human subrace chosen). You are a Typical X if you select your human talent AND your specialty from the suggested ones. If your starting class is Priest, then you have also to choose your deity among those listed for your home region (a third prerequisite?).

Again don't limit force the deity to have to be picked from a list. The deities listed on the regional tables in the FRCG are the most common in that region, and are thus suggestions. Only require a specific deity or path if a character option requires it as a pre-req.

[Arioch]

Again don't limit force the deity to have to be picked from a list. The deities listed on the regional tables in the FRCG are the most common in that region, and are thus suggestions. Only require a specific deity or path if a character option requires it as a pre-req.

Effectively talents + specialty + deity(only for priests) can be perceived as limiting... maybe we can work on this more... but...

What I'm trying to say is that you are NOT, in anyway forced to make your choices following the list... Simply encouraged by giving you a MINOR bonus ... A bonus sufficient to justify a little more effort in creating a PC (making your idea of character compatible with the suggestions the list gives), but not so high so that you are free to ignore it.

(draft idea) : The bonus for being typical is that you gain the access to the FR Regional Feats (To be converted...)... If the particular talent does not require to be chosen only at 1st level, as someone previously suggested, with some interest spent to gain knowledge of that region you can take it later...