Various questions on Soldiers

[Q Illespont]

Hi, folks.  Been playing SpyCraft a while, and a little while ago my group had a short discussion about class skills--namely, Medicine, what with another party member leaking red stuff out of his chest.

On page 88 of the second printing, it shows this is a class skill for Soldiers; the Soldier's class text suggests it is not.  Which should apply?  (Not that it'd help our poor Field Analyst in this case..)

I'd also been thinking of my Soldier's progression, especially some feats:
-The 'Rock and Roll' feat has some benefits for all full-auto weapons, but the one-hand firing only applies to rifles and machineguns as written.  Should it also apply to submachineguns too?
-I'd been looking at Boxing Moves, and the Knock Out trick in particular.  The problem is I can't think of many builds (aside from starting with Str 17 or 18) where you could use Standard Attacks to score 10 or more damage with a bare fist without the level 15 feat Master's Art, as the dice for unarmed go d4 at 1st, d6 at 6th (Martial Arts), 2d6 at 15th.  First printing had it go d6/2d6/3d6.  Was this an oversight, or am I just not good at making Soldiers?

Finally, a Wealth question.  5 and 10 on Lifestyle give you the option to split, or take one.  I was wondering what would happen to someone with, say, a 7..could he split to get two picks from 1-6, or would they be 1-4s?

[Desertpuma]

Welcome to the boards!

The page 88 is a misnomer, go by the actual class list on the Base Class itself. Even Untrained, you should still be able to make some basic first aid check capped at 15.

Rock and Roll is better when combined with the Basic Combat feats designed for getting people down by numerical advantage starting with Tactical Advantage. Originally, the Unarmed combat damage was higher but it was lowered to put it more on par with melee weapons.

As for the Wealth part, you'll notice the Caliber is split. As it states later on in the Gear chapter, a Caliber III breaks down into 2 Caliber I picks. So splitting the Wealth 7 would produce 2 Caliber I picks.

[doneatrawhagis]

As far as unarmed goes, I wish there was more to it as well. Is unarmed affected by armor?

Also I think unarmed as very good for setup attacks, such as Brawling Basic, which headbutt is a good trick learned there.

A few of my friends are using pistols and revolvers but if I took into account recoil they would be screwed on accuracy. I myself am thinking about making a close quarters Brawler.

Dirty Tricks are good for status inducing attacks which make opponents sickened.

tricks and stances that affect damage:
Closed Stance(+2 bonus damage)
Turning Punch(Triple damage)
Headbutt
Body Slam (subdual dmg)
One - Two
Curb Stomp
Work the Head
Power Kick - armor piercing and Takedown
Hand of God (great counter)
Snap!
Death Grip
Breathing hold

Dont forget other ones that allow Coup De Gras

[Nepenthe]

'coup de gras' = you hit somebody with a hamburger or some other exceptionally fat item

'Coup de grace' = you put somebody out of their misery

Jus' puttin' that out there...

[aegis]

Héhé, for once, something I can talk seriously about. "Coup de grâce" is a French expression which grossly means "strike of mercy": basically, it is a deadly blows that grants your foe a painless (merciful) death. Maybe it was obvious, but if it wasn't...

[doneatrawhagis]

'coup de gras' = you hit somebody with a hamburger or some other exceptionally fat item

'Coup de grace' = you put somebody out of their misery

Jus' puttin' that out there...

I will now kill my enemies with hamburgers 

[Krensky]

I thought coup was touch?

[Nepenthe]

Héhé, for once, something I can talk seriously about. "Coup de grâce" is a French expression which grossly means "strike of mercy": basically, it is a deadly blows that grants your foe a painless (merciful) death. Maybe it was obvious, but if it wasn't...

Yeah, I was so enamored with my version of the 'false' version, I cut some corners on the real one.

Coup is not touch, it's essentially 'strike' or 'blow'. So, the idea is that you're (mercifully) putting somebody out of their  misery.

[Black Cheese]

On page 88 of the second printing, it shows this [Medicine] is a class skill for Soldiers; the Soldier's class text suggests it is not.  Which should apply?  (Not that it'd help our poor Field Analyst in this case..)

Um. The same chart on p. 88 shows that Drive isn't a class skill for Soldiers. So, yeah, I guess if you wanted to go with the whole chart-trumps-text Spycraft paradigm, you could do that, but I'm pretty sure most soldiers can also Drive pretty well (or at least have the option to--I mean, more often than patching up folks and performing psychotherapy and surgery).

I suggested a long time ago that Medicine be added to the Sol's skill list instead of Search, if for nothing else than easier access to the Medic expert class. But I also wanted the quartermaster from Signs and Portents have high BAB and medium Def to make it more Sol-ready and reduce World on Fire's forward's Fort to medium to give him medium Wealth (I mean, really, you give a guy a whole extra Wealth meter and then make this character's Wealth low? What?). So... um... whatever.

The 'Rock and Roll' feat has some benefits for all full-auto weapons, but the one-hand firing only applies to rifles and machineguns as written.  Should it also apply to submachineguns too?

All of the light SMGs are already 1-handed. None of the rifles and machine guns are. Seeing as how the difference is 1 point of damage, I'm pretty sure it just wasn't worth noting. Just use a smaller SMG.

I'd been looking at Boxing Moves, and the Knock Out trick in particular.  The problem is I can't think of many builds (aside from starting with Str 17 or 18) where you could use Standard Attacks to score 10 or more damage with a bare fist without the level 15 feat Master's Art, as the dice for unarmed go d4 at 1st, d6 at 6th (Martial Arts), 2d6 at 15th.  First printing had it go d6/2d6/3d6.  Was this an oversight, or am I just not good at making Soldiers?

Yeah, you're just not good. ;-) Let's do 10 points of damage!

• Adaptable talent.
• Daring talent.
• Sct's sneak attack class ability.
• Sol's killer instinct subability from his weapon specialist class ability.
• Tactics/Ambush (Wis) skill check.
• Containment Basics feat.
• Tac-squad Supremacy feat.
• Wolf Pack Mastery and Supremacy feats.
• Berserker Basics, Mastery, and Supremacy feats.
• The aforementioned Martial Arts and Master's Arts feats.
• All or Nothing and Better Luck Next Time feats (and, depending on the use of the word gain in the Fortune Favors the Bold feat, that one, too--i.e. you spend your d4 action die, it rolls a 1, and you gain a d6 action die).
  
• Mark of Strife feat.
• Ambush Basics, Mastery, and Supremacy.
• Whack feat (if you are already inflicting subdual damage with your punch or, if you've Martial Arts or Master's Art feats, don't mind taking the -4 to attack rolls).

I love the Boxing Basics' knock-out punch trick. And, as a GC, I fear it. I had a PC who specialized in it. He was something like a Str 19 Gonzo Stranger Sol2/Mar1 with Berserker Basics [1st], Berserker Mastery [3rd], Boxing Moves [Sol bonus], Mark of Strife [specialty bonus], and Martial Arts [Mar bonus].

Yeah, he was doing 1d6 +1 (from the Mark of Strife feat) +6 (Str bonus during "berserker rage"). That's a pair of knock-out punches every round. That's wthout any sneak attack damage, which is where the knock-out punch really shines.

Finally, a Wealth question.  5 and 10 on Lifestyle give you the option to split, or take one.  I was wondering what would happen to someone with, say, a 7..could he split to get two picks from 1-6, or would they be 1-4s?

Sadly, previous commenters are correct: you pretty much bone yourself by picking something weaker than what you deserve (in essence, "You can have two +1 swords or one +2 sword"--under all but the weirdest circumstances, having the lone +2 sword is better)... but only sort of, upon carful reading. But this

for the Wealth part, you'll notice the Caliber is split. As it states later on in the Gear chapter, a Caliber III breaks down into 2 Caliber I picks. So splitting the Wealth 7 would produce 2 Caliber I picks.

doesn't work, as then, with a Caliber IV option, you still wouldn't get to pick 2 Caliber II options, much less 3.

I've always wondered about this, as the "any two" option says you "may not choose identical options listed at a lower Lifestyle"--so, if you go with the Lifestyle 5 option to get "any two," you must get a Caliber II vehicle (for Lifestyle 4) and a Caliber I vehicle (for Lifestyle 1, 2, or 3) or two Caliber I vehicles (for Lifestyle 1, 2, and/or 3). Same for Lifestyle 10. So why you would ever go for just an ocean sailboat when you could have an ocean sailboat and a close-range UAV remains a mystery.*

But, yeah, at Wealth 6 or 7, you're probably better off with your +3 sword than your +1 sword and your +2 sword. However, by Lifestyle 10, you could get either just a +4 sword or two +4 swords and a +3 sword. Why you wouldn't do that is anyone's guess.
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* Extra cash tip: Choosing the close-range UAV as a possession rather than a prsonal vehicle (and almost anyone can--it's Caliber I, after all) can get you, in less than 1 hour, $875,000. That should cover your bribes for the mission.

[EloiseCartwright]

Of course you may suffer some rep loss from selling those UAV's on the black market.

[Black Cheese]

Of course you may suffer some rep loss from selling those UAV's on the black market.

Of course, you as a GC could invoke some sort of a Reputation penalty for doing so, but you wouldn't be following the rules. I mean, really, "[A] character may sell up to 2 Possessions without penalty" (p. 221) is pretty clear.

[Desertpuma]

* Extra cash tip: Choosing the close-range UAV as a possession rather than a prsonal vehicle (and almost anyone can--it's Caliber I, after all) can get you, in less than 1 hour, $875,000. That should cover your bribes for the mission.

Never had to use that ... and now, I'll let my players figure it out on their own...

[Nepenthe]

Of course you may suffer some rep loss from selling those UAV's on the black market.

Of course, you as a GC could invoke some sort of a Reputation penalty for doing so, but you wouldn't be following the rules. I mean, really, "[A] character may sell up to 2 Possessions without penalty" (p. 221) is pretty clear.

... and I suddenly understand how you got your name. That IS cheesy!

[EloiseCartwright]

Not in my game.
If the characters were desperate, needed the cash and happened to have a UAV there to sell, I'd allow it (once).
However requisitioning expensive military hardware purely for the purposes of selling it (presumably) on the black market is something else entirely.

[tenebrae]

However requisitioning expensive military hardware purely for the purposes of selling it (presumably) on the black market is something else entirely.

Well, they're not requisitioning anything. The item is one of their personal possessions, based on their wealth.