Animal PC Species.

[Catodon]

I bow to your experience.

Apologies if I entered lecture mode there.

@ Silvercat,

BTW, were you intending for these animal PCs to be able to speak?

Nup you didn't. I was just indicating that your information is probably more reliable.
No problem either way it's a bad habit of mine too.

[SilvercatMoonpaw]

Velociraptor: Give them Reviled (-1) and cut them down to Superior jumper I perhaps?  That takes them to 7.5 - maybe also make them Aloof.

I try to avoid Reviled because it's a story consideration and don't want to apply it genericly.  Though I suppose it might be okay in this case.   It's just not my taste.

Aloof might be okay, as it's a dinosaur likely to be interacting with mammals.  I might change the wording a little to allow it to work on other dinosaurs.

Elephant: Give them Fatal Falls (-0.5), alter their stats to have +2 Str, +2 Con, -2 Dex (2 points rather than 3), and alter the restricted actions to be -1 rather than -0.5.  That takes them to 7.5 too, at which point Aloof is your friend.

Would fatal falls be a good option for most quadrupeds?  I mean what criteria does one work off of to determine whether a creature is especially effected by falls?

-2 Dex is a good idea.  I'd also considered Lumbering.

Wild horse: Make this a species feat.

Good point.  Notice I've tried to do that with some of the others.  Part of it is that sometimes you don't want to have to spend a feat to be what you want.

[paddyfool]

Elephant: Give them Fatal Falls (-0.5), alter their stats to have +2 Str, +2 Con, -2 Dex (2 points rather than 3), and alter the restricted actions to be -1 rather than -0.5.  That takes them to 7.5 too, at which point Aloof is your friend.

Would fatal falls be a good option for most quadrupeds?  I mean what criteria does one work off of to determine whether a creature is especially effected by falls?

-2 Dex is a good idea.  I'd also considered Lumbering.

Lumbering would be a good choice - for some reason, I thought they might have it already.

On the rest:

Bison: The obvious thing to remove would be Charging basics, fun though that is.

Cattle: Hmm.  Bonus feat: Yeoman's work and Low light vision (aka darkvision I)?

Goat: Heh.  Maybe give them -2 Str, +2 to lower of Con & Dex (from -5 to 0.5).  Then on top of what you've given them already, add sure-footed (1), iron gut (1), lean season (1), low light vision (1), and always ready (2)

Sheep: Give them -2 Str, +2 Wis (from -5 to 1).  Then add cold resist 5 (1), thick hide 2 (1) achilles heel: fire (-0.5), sure-footed (1), low light vision (1), and camouflage (arctic) (2).

Tiger: Add restricted actions (calm, influence and bargain?) (-1)

[SilvercatMoonpaw]

That's a lot of good ideas on the domestics, and I've already incorporated some into the third draft.  I've also managed to figure out some solutions and gotten a few of the problems to the done stage.

[SilvercatMoonpaw]

Almost completely done! Just a few species feat issues and the Goat.  And then once this list is done I can start on the animals I haven't covered as well as ones that were not included in the bestiary.

Ape: [7]
Medium Folk [ 0 ]
Str +4, Dex -2, Con +2 [3]
Restricted Actions: Kick attacks, Swim and Disable actions [-1]
Enlightened Athletics [1]
Enlightened Intimidate [1]
improved sense (scent) [1]
superior climber I [0.5]
sterner stuff [0.5]
Bite I [1]

Bear: [7]
Medium Beast [-2]
Str +4, Dex -2, Con +2, Int -2 [4]
Enlightened Intimidate [1]
grappler [0.5]
superior runner I [0.5]
sterner stuff [0.5]
+4 scent-related Awareness and Perception [0.5]
Bite I [1]
Claw I [1]

Grizzly (Species feat): [3]
Large [+1]
Str +2 [+2.5]
Aloof [-0.5]

Dromedary Camel: [7]
Large Beast [-1]
Con +2, Cha -2 [1]
Pathfinder Basics (desert) [3]
improved stability [1]
superior traveler II [1]
Lean Season [1]
Kick I [1]

Velociraptor: [7]
Medium Beast [-2]
Str +2, Dex +2, Int -2 [3]
Spd 40 [1]
Aloof (works as written, except you may use it on similar dinosaurs) [-0.5]
improved sense (scent, sight) [2]
superior jumper I [1]
superior runner I [0.5]
Bite I [1]
Kick I [1]

Dog: [7]
Small Beast [-1]
Int -2, Wis +2 [1]
Spd 40 [1]
Enlightened Notice [1]
Enlightened Search [1]
improved sense (hearing, scent) [2]
superior runner I [0.5]
Light Sleeper [0.5]
Bite I [1]

Big Dog (Species feat): [3]
Medium [-1]
Spd 50 [+1]
+2 lower of Int or Str, but -2 Wis [+0.5]
superior traveler I [+0.5]
Crunch! [1]

Eagle: [7]
Tiny Beast [-1]
+2 Dex or Wis, Cha -2 [1]
Spd 20 [-0.5]
Winged flight 40 [2]
Enlightened Search [1]
improved sense (sight) [1]
Bite I [1]
Talon I [1]

Giant Eagle (Species feat): [2.5]
Large [+0]
Wis +2 [+2.5]

Elephant: [7]
Large Beast [-1]
Str +2, Dex -2, Con +2 [3]
Restricted Actions: Jump, Mask, Sneak [-1]
Lumbering [-1]
Fatal Falls [-0.5]
thick hide 3 [2]
improved stability [1]
improved sense (hearing) [1]
superior runner I [0.5]
sterner stuff [0.5]
Trample I [1]
Gore I [1]

Donkey: [7]
Medium Beast [-2]
Con +2 [2.5]
Low-light vision [1]
Enlightened Resolve [1]
+4 sight-related Awareness and Perception [0.5]
improved stability [1]
Iron Gut [1]
Lean Season [1]
Kick I [1]

Draft Horse: [7]
Large Beast [-1]
Str +2, Con +2, Int -2 [3]
Spd 40 [1]
Low-light vision [1]
+4 sight-related Awareness and Perception [0.5]
+50% improved carrying capacity [0.5]
superior traveler II [1]
Kick I [1]

Race Horse: [7]
Large Beast [-1]
Dex +2, Int -2 [1]
Spd 50 [2]
Low-light vision [1]
Enlightened Athletics [1]
+4 sight-related Awareness and Perception [0.5]
superior runner II [1]
superior traveler I [0.5]
Kick I [1]

Riding/Wild Horse (Race Horse Species feat): [3.5]
Con +2 [+2.5]
improved stability [+1]
superior traveler to grade II [+0.5]
superior runner to grade I [-0.5]

Mule (any Horse Species feat): [3.5]
Con +2 [2.5]
improved stability [1]
Enlightened Resolve [1]

Pony (any Horse Species feat): [1.5]
Medium [-1]
+50% improved carrying capacity [+1]
superior traveler +I grade [+0.5]
Lean Season [+1]

Bison: [7]
Large Beast [-1]
Str +2, Con +2, Int -2, Cha -2 [2]
Spd 40 [1]
Low-light vision [1]
Cold Resistance 5 [1]
thick hide 2 [1]
Gore I [1]
Trample I [1]

Cattle/Oxen: [7]
Large Beast [-1]
Str +4, Dex -2, Int -2, Cha -2 [2]
Low-light vision [1]
improved stability [1]
Slam or Gore I [1]
Yeoman’s Work [3]

Elk: [7]
Large Beast [-1]
Str +2, Int -2, Cha -2 [ 0 ]
Spd 40 [1]
Low-light vision [1]
Pathfinder Basics (forest/jungle) [3]
improved sense (hearing) [1]
+4 sight-related Awareness and Perception [0.5]
superior runner I [0.5]
Gore I (male) or Kick I (female) [1]

Goat: [5.5]
Small Beast [-1]
-2 Str, +2 to lower of Con & Dex [0.5]
Enlightened Investigate [1]
superior runner I [0.5]
iron gut [1]
+4 sight-related Awareness and Perception [0.5]
low light vision [1]
+2 Climb [1]
Slam or Gore I [1]

Sheep: [7]
Small Beast [-1]
-2 Str, +2 Cha [1]
cold resist 5 [1]
thick hide 2 [1]
achilles heel: fire [-0.5]
superior runner I [0.5]
low light vision [1]
+4 sight-related Awareness and Perception [0.5]
camouflage (arctic) [2]
Enlightened Impress [1]
+2 Awareness and Perception to recognize faces [0.5]

Llama: [7]
Medium Beast [-2]
Con +2 [2.5]
Cold Resistance 5 [1]
Pathfinder Basics (caverns/mountains) [3]
+4 sight-related Awareness and Perception [0.5]
superior traveler II [1]
Bite I [1]

Raptor: [7]
Large Beast [-1]
Dex +4, Int -2, Cha -2 [3]
Spd 40 [1]
improved sense (sight) [1]
superior runner I [0.5]
superior traveler I [0.5]
Bite I [1]
Claw I [1]

Tiger: [7]
Large Beast [-1]
+2 to lower of Dex & Cha [2]
Low-light vision [1]
Enlightened Sneak [1]
Camouflage (forest/jungle) [2]
superior runner I [0.5]
grappler [0.5]
Bite I [1]

Saber-Tooth (Species feat): [3]
Str +2, Dex -2 [+1]
Cold Resistance 5 [+1]
Crunch! [+1]

Wolf: [7]
Small Beast [-1]
Dex +2 [2.5]
Enlightened Tactics [1]
improved senses (hearing, scent) [1]
superior runner II [1]
superior traveler I [0.5]
Bite I [1]

EDIT: Uhp, I'm doing so well on the next conversions I might as well drop them in:
Griffon: [7]
Large Beast [-1]
Str +2, Dex +2, Int -2, Cha -2 [2]
Winged flight 40 [2]
Spd 40 [1]
Aloof [-0.5]
improved sense (sight) [1]
sterner stuff [0.5]
Bite I [1]
Talon I [1]

Fire Beetle: [7]
Tiny Beast [-1]
Str +2, Con +2, Int -2, Cha -2 [2]
Spd 20 [-0.5]
Enlightened Notice [1]
Breath weapon: fire [2.5]
Horde Basics [3]

Pegasus (any Horse Species feat): [3]
Dex +2, Con -2 [1]
Winged flight 40 [2]

Rhino: [7]
Large Beast [-1]
Str +2, Cha -2 [1]
Aloof [-0.5]
thick hide 3 [2]
improved sense (hearing, scent) [2]
sterner stuff [0.5]
Gore I [1]
Trample I [1]

Spider, Brown Stalker: [4.5]
Small Beast [-1]
Dex +2, Int -2, Cha -2 [ 0 ]
superior climber III [1.5]
superior jumper III [3]
Bite I [1]

Vargr (Wolf Species feat): [3]
Large [+0]
Str +2 [+2.5]
sterner stuff [+0.5]

[snake]

Very Nice. Thanks again.

[SilvercatMoonpaw]

First of the custom designs:
Domestic Cat: [7]
Tiny Beast [-1]
Light Sleeper [0.5]
Agile Defense [1]
Enlightened Acrobatics [1]
Enlightened Sneak [1]
Low-light vision [1]
Improved senses (hearing) [1]
Superior runner I [0.5]
+2 Climb [1]
Bite I [1]

Red Fox: [7]
Tiny Beast [-1]
+2 Any, -2 Any [1.5]
Agile Defense [1]
Enlightened Acrobatics [1]
Low-light vision [1]
Improved senses (hearing) [1]
Superior runner I [0.5]
+1 Prudence [1]
Bite I [1]

[Catodon]

Very very nice. Will definately steal these. To return the favour did you see my ravens on an earlier thread?
Also I'm guest editor for the next rpg review would you like to turn these into a short article? The issue will be a bestiary and non-human special.
http://www.rpgreview.net/
Crafty Boys. What's the deal with OGL etc. and short articles? (would like to know anyway) I don't want to step on any toes.

[SilvercatMoonpaw]

To return the favour did you see my ravens on an earlier thread?

Yes I did.  I should probably incorporate some of that into my Eagle write-up.

Also I'm guest editor for the next rpg review would you like to turn these into a short article?

*shrug* I was just going to post these on the wiki when I was done.  I'm not much of an article writer, if that makes any difference.

UPDATE: Larger dinosaurs done.  For their Huge forms just take the Truly Massive feat (if available in your campaign).
Ceratopsian: [7]
Large Beast [-1]
Str +2, Dex -2, Con +2, Int -2 [2]
Thick hide 3 [2]
Improved sense (scent) [1]
+4 bonus with sight-related Awareness and Percetion checks [0.5]
Sterner stuff [0.5]
Gore I [1]
Trample I [1]

Tyrannosaur: [7]
Large Beast [-1]
+2 Str [2.5]
Spd 40 [1]
Enlightened Search [1]
Thick hide 3 [2]
Grappler [0.5]
Improved sense (scent) [1]
Superior runner I [0.5]
Sterner stuff [0.5]
Fatal falls [-0.5]
Aloof [-0.5]

UPDATE 2: Some changes to some earlier stuff.  Still having trouble deciding what to end the Giant Eagle feat on.
Eagle: [7]
Tiny Beast [-1]
+2 lower of Dex or Wis [2]
Spd 20 [-0.5]
Winged flight 40 [2]
Restricted Actions: Kick tricks, Jump and Swim [-0.5]
Enlightened Search [1]
improved sense (sight) [1]
impaired sense (scent) [-0.5]
Bite I [1]
Talon I [1]

Giant Eagle (Species feat): [2.5]
Large [+0]
Wis +2 [+2.5]

Giant Hunting Spider: [7]
Small Beast [-1]
Con +2, Int -2, Cha -2 [ 0 ]
Cold Blooded [-0.5]
Aloof [-0.5]
Enlightened Sneak [1]
superior climber III [1.5]
superior jumper III [3]
+4 sight-related Awareness and Perception [0.5]
impaired sense (hearing, scent) [-1]
Always ready [2]
Bite I (venomous — weakening poison) [2]

[Dhampire]

I really like these.  I would love to see your take on a Squirrel and a Rat.

Also, a group of these animals would make for an interesting adventure.

[SilvercatMoonpaw]

The problem with that is how do you price sizes smaller than Tiny?  I only know that one because someone did it at some point, and there's still the possibility it's a bit undercosted (do fewer wounds really make up from being so much harder to hit?).

I mean I could try, but they'd either be cat-sized rodents or they might not get very much stuff as I try to account for the defense bump of size.

[Dhampire]

I'd probably price Dimunitive as 0 or 0.5, because of the 1 extra Defense bump compared with the Huge to Tiny incremental differences.  Fine, I'd think would be 4.

[SilvercatMoonpaw]

Tiny to Diminutive actually gives a bump of +3 to Defense, with a further 1/3 Wound reduction.  Small to Tiny is +1 Defense, 1/3 Wound reduction.  Given that I'd actually tentatively place Diminutive at 2.

Fine is a further +4 Defense, and only reduces wounds to a total of 1/4 Con score.  So yeah, at least 4.

UPDATE: Okay, here's my try:
Squirrel: [7]
Diminutive Beast [ 0 ]
Superior jumper I [0.5]
Superior climber II [1]
Enlightened Acrobatics [1]
Enlightened Athletics [1]
+1 Prudence [1]
+4 bonus on sight-related Awareness and Perceptions checks [0.5]
Bite I [1]

Rat: [6.5]
Diminutive Beast [ 0 ]
Low-light vision [1]
Superior runner I [0.5]
Superior swimmer I [0.5]
Enlightened Athletics [1]
Enlightened Sneak [1]
+4 bonus on sight-related Awareness and Perceptions checks [0.5]
Improved sense (hearing) [1]
Bite I [1]

[Dhampire]

Oh, okay.  I was using your Tiny to Large values as reference, but those also have Beast in them.  My bad.  (Diminutive Beast = 0 or 0.5 was what I meant.)

Thanks, btw for prompt reply on the critter requests.  I like.

[Catodon]

HAPPINESS!