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Author Topic: [Setting conversion] Rokugan  (Read 18275 times)
Mister Andersen
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« Reply #15 on: August 24, 2010, 02:24:53 PM »

Iaijutsu is a combination dick-swinging contest and mental chess battle. To me, that sounds like it's basically a CQB ranged grapple action using Intimidate (Cha) instead of Athletics (Str).

Pin the opponent, and they get to nod and walk off intact.
Injure them and inflict that stress damage of a threaten action; if they break, they run

etc, etc,
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« Reply #16 on: August 25, 2010, 02:22:45 AM »

@Mister Andersen: That's basically what the dueling conflict is supposed to look like. A mini-game, as Scotty said, just like the grapple is, but with its own rules.

@Doublebond: It could. The point is, dueling is such a specific and important kind of conflict in Rokugan that it would be a shame not to have dedicated rules for it. Not that you can't simulate it with a regular combat, or a duel of Resolve, but the idea is to create a new option for those who'd like duels to have their own feel. If you don't like the option, you can still use standard rules.

@Morgenstern: Oh, so the preview rules on the wiki were self-contained! I should delete these strategies then, or squeeze them into feats, since there is no reason a duelist would buy a strategy rather than dueling focus with his proficiencies.

@glimmerrat: I like the idea, but I would rather see Clans as Talents. Hence, the Kakita bushi you describe could be either a Crane Fencer, or a Fencer with another Talent if he is not archetypal to the Crane clan. Why? Well, mostly because that's a lot less Origins to design. Tongue

@Krensky: I definitely get your point. But as Scotty said, there have always been "mini-game" rules for dueling in all incarnations of Rokugan. I do like the stand off rules, a lot, but again, as the Kenku Master said, their conversion to Mastercraft is not so easy. Dramatic conflicts, on the other hand, are officially scheduled for ... soon, I hope. Tongue

If Alex or Pat are reading this, do you still plan to make dueling a new dramatic conflict?

Hell, that was a lot of questions and remarks to answer, thanks guys! This gave me a whole new bunch of ideas. And in the meantime, I added a short list of all Rokugan weapons I could find, with equivalences in Fantasy Craft. Sometimes, it was already there, as for the naginata for instance, and sometimes, I had to make it up, as for the tetsubo which I handled as a great club. The only fully new weapon is the mai chong, this fantasy hybrid between a trident and a rake that only Boar samurai use. The document is not up to date, though.

With all this, I can update my to do list:
  • Build Origins: Species, Talents (Clan-based probably), and Specialties.
  • Update Honor Rules: This is going well, thanks to Scotty. I should have something cool by tomorrow.
  • Remove Dueling Strategies: Or make them feats. Since the dueling rules are indeed self-contained (why did I feel otherwise?).
  • Update the Feats Section Accordingly: Yep, Honor- and Dueling- based feats may need a heads up, but that's all. I also plan two new Style chains, one based on Clan relations, another made for winter courts. I like courtiers with tons of tricks.  Grin
  • Design a Handful of Magic Items: I haven't had a chance to create many Magic Items with Fantasy Craft yet. I'll take a look in Prayers & Treasures to see if there are some relics worth converting.
And that's it! Once this is done, the base conversion guide will be over. And it will be time for playtest, iconics, and NPCs (not necessarily in that order)! If you have ideas for anything, Origin, feat, whatever, please post it! Smiley
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« Reply #17 on: August 25, 2010, 02:42:48 AM »

I like the idea, but I would rather see Clans as Talents. Hence, the Kakita bushi you describe could be either a Crane Fencer, or a Fencer with another Talent if he is not archetypal to the Crane clan. Why? Well, mostly because that's a lot less Origins to design. Tongue

If design is an issue, i'd be happy to help - I could bang out a whole clan's worth in 20 minutes. That said, if you don't want a Talent for each of the iconic schools then surely it'd be better to do a Talent for each family? For example - using the Crane (since we're on that topic anyway...):

Doji: attractive, graceful, wealthy, perfect grasp of etiquette
Kakita: arrogant, perfectionist, obsessed with being 'the best'
Asahina: pacifistic to a fault, difficult to drag into politics if they don't want to be
Daidoji: sneaky, rough and tumble, tough, highly militaristic

The only reason I press the issue is that as you can see, there's a lot of variation within each clan. You could then take a different talent if you're a less-than-archetypal member of your family. See, I like to have lots of options when it comes to Origins (of course, YMMV...), and L5R is one of those settings where if you're gonna do it, you need to do it right. If you'd prefer not to, that's cool (it is your conversion after all!), but my devil's advocate switch has been tripped now  Wink

*EDIT* Damn you aegis, now I want to play L5R!

*EDIT EDIT* As far as magic items go, I wouldn't waste your time. Nemuranai are so rare in Rokugan that I feel the GM should make each one up as a unique item. Sorry, I just remember Toturi Tsudao's +5 honorable lawful flaming burst katana (in a saya of keen edges) and +5 keen honorable throwing wakazashi. Please don't go there?  Undecided
« Last Edit: August 25, 2010, 02:55:53 AM by glimmerrat » Logged

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Mister Andersen
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« Reply #18 on: August 25, 2010, 03:14:51 AM »

@Mister Andersen: That's basically what the dueling conflict is supposed to look like. A mini-game, as Scotty said, just like the grapple is, but with its own rules.

No, I'm saying directly use the Grapple rules and just change the effects of the various benefits.
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« Reply #19 on: August 25, 2010, 03:17:30 AM »

If design is an issue, i'd be happy to help - I could bang out a whole clan's worth in 20 minutes. That said, if you don't want a Talent for each of the iconic schools then surely it'd be better to do a Talent for each family? For example - using the Crane (since we're on that topic anyway...):

Doji: attractive, graceful, wealthy, perfect grasp of etiquette
Kakita: arrogant, perfectionist, obsessed with being 'the best'
Asahina: pacifistic to a fault, difficult to drag into politics if they don't want to be
Daidoji: sneaky, rough and tumble, tough, highly militaristic
You don't know what you've thrown yourself into. Deal. You take care of the family Talents? Cheesy
*EDIT* Damn you aegis, now I want to play L5R!
I like spreading the Taint.
*EDIT EDIT* As far as magic items go, I wouldn't waste your time. Nemuranai are so rare in Rokugan that I feel the GM should make each one up as a unique item. Sorry, I just remember Toturi Tsudao's +5 honorable lawful flaming burst katana (in a saya of keen edges) and +5 keen honorable throwing wakazashi. Please don't go there?  Undecided
Point taken. Since I had no idea anyway (except digging in Prayers & Treasures), let's save some space and forget this section. Hey hey hey, the list shortens! Grin

@Mister Andersen: Yes, I read you. But I'm stubborn. I miss dramatic conflicts and if I have an opportunity to reintroduce one, I will. Tongue
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Krensky
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« Reply #20 on: August 25, 2010, 10:22:05 AM »

The dueling rules I remeber in L5R were focus, focus, strike and if it's still an issue regular combat.

Sounds like a standoff (although perhaps not as lethal) and the combat chapter to me.
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« Reply #21 on: August 25, 2010, 11:00:23 AM »

You don't know what you've thrown yourself into. Deal. You take care of the family Talents? Cheesy

I don't know why i'm agreeing to this, but ok, sure.
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« Reply #22 on: August 25, 2010, 01:23:22 PM »

The dueling rules I remeber in L5R were focus, focus, strike and if it's still an issue regular combat.

Sounds like a standoff (although perhaps not as lethal) and the combat chapter to me.

There are 3 stages to an Iaijutsu duel.

Assessment, where you size up your opponent and learn a bit about them (as relates to dueling).
Focus, where you hone your reaction, waiting for your opponents focus to waver.  Then you...
Strike, and unless to the death, the one striking first and successfully hitting, wins.

If the first strike fails, the opponent gets one... then it goes to a skirmish.

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« Reply #23 on: August 25, 2010, 01:25:52 PM »

Which is pretty much what I just said.
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« Reply #24 on: August 25, 2010, 05:04:01 PM »

I'm looking into a project for Brakk, but once I come back up for air I'll go over the dueling stuff. It's got a year's worth of tarnish on it that needs to be rubbed off. I look at the strategies now and kinda wince Roll Eyes.

Glimmerrat, if you can find some of my old posts on Lions and Cranes, theres a couple new origin tricks in there that will make the Talents go MUCH faster. Try a search for Golden Lion.

I advocate treating shugenja as Priests. Elemental paths are pretty much set in the book. Need a path for ancestors (Kitsu magic) and a path that grants the magic item creation feats for making trinket nemurani (Iuchhi and Asahina). Darkness path for Shohei/Shosuro. Really, most o the magic in the setting is done if your start from priests.

(Note on personal bias - I build Rokugan adaptations with the CCG as the primary source, not the RPG. I find the cardgame mechanics better balanced, more diverse, and more inspiring.)
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« Reply #25 on: August 26, 2010, 12:56:22 AM »

Glimmerrat, if you can find some of my old posts on Lions and Cranes, theres a couple new origin tricks in there that will make the Talents go MUCH faster. Try a search for Golden Lion.
Hehe, I was expecting to use the Golden Lion as an expert class for Lions indeed.
I advocate treating shugenja as Priests. Elemental paths are pretty much set in the book. Need a path for ancestors (Kitsu magic) and a path that grants the magic item creation feats for making trinket nemurani (Iuchhi and Asahina). Darkness path for Shohei/Shosuro. Really, most o the magic in the setting is done if your start from priests.
Which is exactly what I've done so far. Smiley  I just need a few new Paths, indeed.
(Note on personal bias - I build Rokugan adaptations with the CCG as the primary source, not the RPG. I find the cardgame mechanics better balanced, more diverse, and more inspiring.)
I must admit I don't know the CCG at all, but I'm not a specialist of the RPG either. Tongue

Can't wait to see your thoughts on dueling!
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glimmerrat
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« Reply #26 on: August 26, 2010, 09:05:07 AM »

Glimmerrat, if you can find some of my old posts on Lions and Cranes, theres a couple new origin tricks in there that will make the Talents go MUCH faster. Try a search for Golden Lion.

Found the Golden Lion class, but I can't find any origin tricks... what precisely were you referring to?
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« Reply #27 on: August 26, 2010, 12:36:09 PM »

Found the Golden Lion class, but I can't find any origin tricks... what precisely were you referring to?
Found it Smiley. Basically It's a 1 point advantage that feeds into certain prestige classes, and the observation that a rigid society like Rokugan's was a place where Iconic Classes would be perfectly reasonable as part of some human talents. Especially if you 8-10 factional talents (the clans) and 50ish even narrower family talents.
Quote
Back to the topic at hand: I tend to think Iconic Classes and Iconic specialties could be very helpful in creating human Talents for a rigidly stratified culture. I also came up with a new benefit for Talents that could reflect such strong presumptions about upbringing leading into a specific skill set. Right now I'm leaning towards the name 'calling' for the benefit. Here's some examples using a pair of noble houses from L5R (there would be a total of 7 points like normal, this is just showing how I'd use the restriction and the new benefit).

Doji
(1) Calling: You may gain levels as an Gallant or Schemer beginning at Career Level 4 if you meet all other prerequisites for that class.
(-1) Iconic Class: Courtier or Lancer

Matsu
(1) Calling: You may gain levels as a Beastmaster or Golden Lion beginning at Career Level 4 if you meet all other prerequisites for that class.
(-1) Iconic Class: Lancer or Scout




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Mister Andersen
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« Reply #28 on: August 26, 2010, 12:38:57 PM »

That's a mechanics combo I can happily get behind.
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glimmerrat
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« Reply #29 on: August 26, 2010, 12:42:03 PM »

It's a good idea. I am sorely tempted to add Iconic Classes to ALL family talents now. Here's the first draft of the Crab stuff, sans Calling or Iconic Class. Please feel free to suggest how to alter them, and if you like them, say so (and why). If anyone knows the html tags for highlighting stuff, i'll add it in an edit. I didn't bother with Toritaka since after the Falcon clan ceased to exist they stopped mattering to me. I also missed out the Yasuki because they don't feel like Crabs and never have.

Crab Clan Talents

Hida
Descended from the Kami Hida, you are a fierce, passionate warrior.
[1] • Attributes: +2 Strength, -2 Charisma
[0] • Base Speed: 30 ft.
[1] • Blunt Proficiency: You gain the Blunt proficiency.
[1] • Crunch!: Your STR based damage rolls inflict 1 additional damage.
[3] • Rock Solid: You gain 1 additional wound point per level.
[1] • Unbreakable: Each time you suffer attribute impairment, it decreases by 1 (minimum 0).

Hiruma
You are lean and tough, a natural survivor.
[1] • Attributes: +2 Constitution, -2 Charisma
[1] • Base Speed: 40 ft.
[1] • Agile Defense: Your base Defense increases by 1.
[1] • Enlightened Survival: Your maximum Survival rank increases to your Career Level + 5. Only the highest bonus from any single enlightened ability may apply to each skill.
[1] • Lean Season: You require only 1 common meal per day.
[2] • Tenacious Spirit: You gain 1 additional vitality per level.

Kaiu
Patient and hard-working, you are the backbone of the Crab Clan.
[1] • Attributes: +2 Intelligence, -2 Charisma
[0] • Base Speed: 30 ft.
[1] • Enlightened Craft: Your maximum Craft rank increases to your Career Level + 5. Only the highest bonus from any single enlightened ability may apply to each skill.
[1] • Improved Stability: You’re considered 1 Size category largers for carrying capacity, trample attacks, and resisting bull rush and trip attempts so long as you are standing firmly on the ground and not climbing, flying or riding.
[1] • Inquisitive Mind: You gain 2 additional interests.
[1] • Siege Proficiency: You gain the Siege proficiency.
[2] • Slow and Steady: the cost to activate your Downtime errors and those of your teammates increases by 2 action dice.

Kuni
Your kabuki painted face is met with fear and suspicion, and rightly so.
[1] • Attributes: +2 Wisdom, -2 Charisma
[0] • Base Speed: 30 ft.
[1] • Enlightened Intimidate: Your maximum Intimidate rank increases to your Career Level + 5. Only the highest bonus from any single enlightened ability may apply to each skill.
[3] • Menacing Threat: You may Threaten up to 3 opponents at once. You roll only once for the action, while each opponent rolls to resist separately.
[2] • Sharp Mind: you gain 1 additional skill point per level.

*EDIT* There's something missing about the Hida, and I can't decide what it is.  >:(
« Last Edit: August 26, 2010, 12:51:12 PM by glimmerrat » Logged

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