Your preferred fantasy

[Gentry]

No, this is not about baby oil and the swedish bikini team.  Everyone take a moment.   

That done, I'm curious.  What do people tend to like in their swords-and-sorcery fantasy gaming?  What attracts you to it, or puts you off it?  Have you got particular pet peeves (like "I'll never play another game featuring (fill in the blank) again!")?

[Bill Whitmore]

...no...bikini...team?

What I like in fantasy settings:
   The character's action should be able to have a lasting effect on the face of the world.  They can build mighty armies, maybe even nations.  They can vanquish ferocious beasts, but not before half a kingdom is laid to waste.  They can build shadow-organizations that decided the fates of whole kingdoms.  Nothing annoys me more than playing in a game for months, or even years, retiring the characters, and realizing that nothing has actually changed in the world.  This is true for just about any game and not just fantasy.

What I don't like in fantasy settings:
   Ancient powerful beings who made ancient powerful artifacts and weilded ancient powerful magics that no one can match any more.  I would rather magic not exist than have that.  I MUCH prefer the D&D mindset in that regard, where you can make just about any magic item in existence, even artifacts when you get into epic levels.
   Worlds that are so well defined that you can't do anything in them because it has already been done <cough> Forgotten Realms <cough>.
   Resurrection being way to cheap.

[Psion]

Hmmm... timely topic.

Okay, there's a lot of different things I like, but the 4e news and speculation has bought to the fore many little peeves and nits.

Like:

• Non-combat challenges -- puzzles and skill-based challenges should figure.
• Moral realism. That means alignment or something like it.
• Fighting demons and other supernatural or irredeemable foes.
• Planar travel, exotic locations, exotic magic
• Crossovers with Earth as we know it.
• Intrigue!
• Hawt sorceresses!
• Ancient beings of unimaginable power!

Dislike:

• Combat only balancing.
• Bling over characters; sense of entitlement regarding magic items. All items in my games should be thought of as transient.
• Shopping. To include both accounting and yammering with shopkeeps.
• Unexplained coincidences with earthly language structure or customs.

[NezMaster]

• Moral realism. That means alignment or something like it.

Wow..I would have said something like
"Moral Realsm. This means no alignment systems or anything like it."

I think the vauge ludicrous attempts DND make to try to put peoples behaviour into little tiny boxes is really offputting and annoying. I am constantly trying to ignore or get around Alignement restrictions.

If alignement is being enforced, I have to be neutral something, so I can just focus on the thing that I'm trying to promote. (Nuetral good usually, I'll just try to be good) But sometimes good people do bad things. Sometimes habitually the same bad thing but in all other respects are good. (the hero who gives his life for others, but has this compulsion to beat women or something) Sometimes lawful people bend the law. Not often enough to be chaotic, but sometimes. I hate hate hatey hate alignements. I have yet to meet any person who fits into a box that small, and I like playing characters who feel real, not like cardboard cut outs.

That being said I did have fun once playing a lawful neutral figure in a game, just to show that lawful neutral is really just another word for evil.

[Psion]

Wow..I would have said something like
"Moral Realsm. This means no alignment systems or anything like it."

You have no idea what the term "moral realism" means, do you? 

[Valentina]

Hmm.

Love:
*Complex national relations. Nations don't have friends, they have Interests -and that includes complimentary alliances.

*Nationality as an important facet of identity. Everyone's from somewhere, and the more similiar places are the more important it is for every ethnic group to make it known they're NOT like their neighbors. And similarly...

*Racism. Yup. Too many DM's just see another group of PC's, and don't think to have the enviroment react to the presence of any unusual race, never mind a passle of them There's a reason dicks like to taunt Dwarves with short jokes; the purity of the disrespect conveyed.

*HISTORY MATTERS. The past influences every facet of your campaign's life. Know this, respect this, obey it's consequences.

*Gods without alignments. There is no Good or Evil, only the Divine and what each sect, cult, or church chooses to emphasize. One person's goddess of fertility is the next's mother of the unfettered wild and the third's lady of the eternal earth.

*No alignment restrictions on classes. Chaotic Monks, and Lawful Barbies. Please do, and be honest D20: Alignment is about working spell effects, not categorizing behavior.

*Hawt near-humans. If you're that kind of walking sex, hell yes Charisma is a +defense stat. That's Ladies and Lads. Conversely if you're a part-infernal charisma sink, expect a little crap in your cornflakes. Looks matter when the bullets aren't flying.
OTOH PC's don't get targeted by random crime in my campaigns. Seriously. A 1/2-dozen uber-vets in full battle-rattle striding down the street, heads swiveling and hands never far from a visible source of destruction. Yeah, let's fleck with them cuz THAT'LL end up well.

*Classes that grant +def, +Init, and +anything else. Awesome. The more that dilineates a class from it's similiar siblings the better. And Low BAB classes with high Def works fine for me. They're less interested in killing then spazzing out trying to avoid catching lead. Perfect.

*Being Influential on the Campaign setting: Subtle Rules. If my actions are going to tilt the planet's axis, for Goddess's sake don't let me know. Even if I somehow am born to greatness, and oh lawdy how I hate Harry Potter-alikes, let the gods move in quiet ways. And better yet, let there be a reason. Silent Gods are the most intriguing.
Faith should be difficult.

*Magic appropriate lifestyle details. If it's an Ancient Elven Capital there's no real reason the place shouldn't drip with arcane frippery. When you're going to live 500+ years in a High-Fantasy campaign concepts like meticulous urban planning and a box that keeps your food fresh is hardly game breaking.
OTOH if you're King Conan of Aquilonia at the height of it's glory you have NOTHING that  glows in the dark. Period.

Hate:
*Front loaded classes. LOL @ the very concept of straight class Barbarians.

*Really Big Pantheons. Hell no. Celestial Clutter is absolutely unnecessary. At worst every seperate species might deserve different deities -not individual ethnic groups. Hey Greyhawk, drop dead.

*Excessively powerful NPC's littering the landscape. I just found out a particularly vile power-monger/info broker was actually a *drum roll* Twenty-Fourth level Priest 19/ Aristocrat 5. W.T.H. There's never been a SINGLE rumor of this flabby +VV@7 lifting a finger to make a die roll, and he's epic?! Bullshido.  Let's try a little more finesse in our campaign design please. Not everyone important is high level, and vice-versa.

*Meaningless or trivial PC economics. See Lifestyle tracking, Common Item acquisition, item creation paperwork, special mount or animal companion allowances/restrictions -anything that turns me from a hero to an accountant (well, a non-heroic CPA).

*SHODDY MECHANICS. IF IT DOESN'T SING, WHY HAVE YOU PUBLISHED IT?
*caps kept for appropriateness of conveying frothing rage*

*Magic Fixing Everything. No one I know has ranks in Jump, Climb, or Swim. Why would they? There's a spell that's far superior for any situation those skills could be called to address. And that's not counting the utility of a Wizard who can cast 5th level spells over a Barbarian who took Gold in the 500m Breast Stroke.

*Impossibly Glorious Pasts. Echo BW on this one. I've rarely seen this done right; all too commonly to be a hero in the now is just to be part of the ragingly mediocre slouching towards a future of not-very-noteworthy survival. I blame Tolkien and his Going West.

*Healing/Resurrecting being trivial. Imagine the impact this would have on our own world. Medicine as we know it would be catastrophically reoriented.

*Greedy Churches. Incidentally, divine magic is 99% cost free. The local Goddess of Mercy Inc. wants to charge adventurers for a quick patch up? Certainly. But the local cops and commoners have to blow 2 years worth of salary for a Cure Disease when the Searing Squats comes through town again? How does this make a bit of sense?

*PC only Prices. As listed in the DMG and compared with typically earnings by an "average" realm's subject no one lives in houses. 5000gp and up, up, up! for a roof and walls. Better to just shell out for a pup-tent for a fraction of the cost and no appreciable mechanical difference.

[Mister Andersen]

I have a certain fondness for the "low magic" sword-and-sandal style fantasy of Conan and his contempories.

I also quite like the 80s pulp-fantasy resurgance that spawned things such as Galtar and the Golden Lance.

My biggest complaint with the visuals of most fantasy is that it really isn't all that fantastic. These days it's all "here, with extra bits". But back in the day, if it was a Filmation piece, you were pretty much guaranteed to get at least a reasonable attempt at an otherworldly landscape (the Whispering Woods from She-Ra in particular comes to mind).

[Bill Whitmore]

*PC only Prices. As listed in the DMG and compared with typically earnings by an "average" realm's subject no one lives in houses. 5000gp and up, up, up! for a roof and walls. Better to just shell out for a pup-tent for a fraction of the cost and no appreciable mechanical difference.

This comment just made me think of this Order of the Stick strip called Adventurers Are Coming! Adventurers Are Coming!.  The tumbleweed with a pricetag is priceless.

[OverNinja]

LOL  . There is a free adventure on RPGNow where a town has a similar scam running.

(click to show/hide)

Hussle by Silven Publishing. Come to town, take part in festivities while we rip you off.

[Gentry]

Is there one single thing that's a complete deal-breaker for you as a fantasy gamer?  Did Talislanta's "No Elves" policy make you say "No Way"?

[NezMaster]

Is there one single thing that's a complete deal-breaker for you as a fantasy gamer?  Did Talislanta's "No Elves" policy make you say "No Way"?

No elves would not do it.

1> Too much magic. Amber, and other games where you flinging around spells like monkey poo in inexahaustible, incomprensible supply. I like my fantasy chracters to still be human, and the universe to be something I can fathom. *

2> Too much definition: I will not play or run in a world where everythings decided. I won't play in certain eras of Star Wars for example, or Middle earth. That being said I ran a 4th age middle earth game for years. AS long as my players can make a difference, I'm cool. It's knowing my characters are playing shadow stage to what's already happened that it annoys me.

* total satire would be a notable excpetion to this. Tunnels and Trolls rules as a comedy game.
 

[OverNinja]

Forgotten Realms & Greyhawk.
Love the background stuff & fluff, hate the über-people that run around and the constanly changing world (if you don't buy this book, you don't know what's happening next  ).

[OverNinja]

Spelljammer is my absolute favorite "fantasy" setting.
You can throw anything in, and if it doesn't work you can drop it without problem.
Had the longest running campaign in it and it spawned the most memorable villain of all our campaigs.

[Bill Whitmore]

2> Too much definition: I will not play or run in a world where everythings decided. I won't play in certain eras of Star Wars for example, or Middle earth. That being said I ran a 4th age middle earth game for years. AS long as my players can make a difference, I'm cool. It's knowing my characters are playing shadow stage to what's already happened that it annoys me.

Often, when I run established worlds like these, I will change a few things to put the player's back into uncertain waters.  I ran one adventure, and I have a campaign sitting in the wings, for Star Wars.

It takes place after the battle of Endor with one tiny difference: Han Solo actually made his roll when sneaking up to the Storm Trooper on Endor.  Since he succeeded, those Storm Troopers were quickly dispatched and they avoided the speeder chase through the jungle.  Consequently, they never met up with the Ewoks and never had the manpower to shut down the shield generator.  The ground team was captured and Luke was brought before Vader.  The scene played out much like the movie, but with his friends in the fleet being blown apart hopelessly he took up Vader's offer and killed the emperor.  With the emperor dead, Luke used what influence he had with his father to allow the remains of the rebel fleet to flee and put off summary execution of his friends who were on Endor.

The players, then, come into a universe where the empire is still in control, the rebel alliance has been fractured and scattered and Luke has turned to the Dark Side.  The Universe is in great need of heroes, now...




Oh, and the moral of the story:  Don't fret failed rolls, they may end up being the best thing that ever happened to you.



EDIT: Changed "failed roles" to "failed rolls"

[TheAuldGrump]

Hmmmm....
Region spanning plots.
Villains with actual goals, aside from 'conquer/destroy the world!!!!'
War.
Naval actions (this can include piracy on the high seas).
Heroism - I don't want the PCs to be villains. They can be scoundrels, but in the long run I want the villains to lose.
Politics - A good villain plays politics, give me a Richeleau over a Voldemort. Or the tangled mess of politics in the Reformation/Counter reformation.
Trade - sometimes adventuring is not the fastest route to wealth, I like the old Merchant-Adventurer model. (Move over Marco Polo!)
Moral ambiguities - just because somebody is trying to take over the world does not mean that he is EVIL!
The occasional 'vile' villain - the kind that when the PCs finally kill him you think 'serves the bastiche right!' - even if they are not the main villain for the campaign these guys are EVIL!
Romance - Not everyone's cup of tea, but a the hero living happily after with the the heroine (or vice versa) is definite fantasy trope.

Not all of these things have to involve the PCs directly, at least at the beginning of the campaign.

Magic as a form of study/science - I prefer self consistent magic systems to a mess of spells.
A flowing history - the world is evolving, things are getting invented, people are born, people die. War and disease sweep nations, both abroad and closer to home. In the early levels the PCs don't influence world events much, but the world turns on regardless.

The Auld Grump