Summary of Differences Bwtween FC and D&D

[Krensky]

Spycraft 2 (although it is admittedly more hidden there) and Fantasy Craft are probably the crunchiest narrativist games I've ever seen.

And that's a good thing since it lets me get people who sneer at most narritivist games to play it. 

Yes, I'm sure the GNS definitions disagree with me, but I learned the terms before GNS threory came out, and the meanings I learned are actually logical.

[Nova]

I keep 'hearing' that, mostly as a severe complaint/admonishment against the system.
"Very crunchy, very complicated". But I just don't see it. There's been people complaining on the imageboards a few times about FC even lacking a bestiary and any dm info/tools, though, so its hard to take "crunchy" at face value.

But I just don't see it as being crunchier than 3.5. If anything its simpler. Sure you may have to input/transcribe some more numbers, but that's a long way from heavy numbercrunching. We're not exactly calculating multisection starship Threat Values with overlay armor under the Silcore system here.

[Krensky]

3.5 is an exceptionally crunchy game. Fantasy Craft is still crunchy, it's just not as crunchy and complex as 3.5.

And yeah, most of the poor reviews or complaint fests I've seen leave me wondering exactly how little of the book they read.

[Desertpuma]

They are used to a separate book specifically for the Bestiary but Crafty has done the best thing in giving us a good arsenal of creatures PLUS a conversion area to bring in anything from the D20 arena. They certainly have not read the GM area to see those info/tools.

As paddyfool put it, less books more options.

[adrick]

We've just started playing our campaign, been 5 sessions so far and its been a blast every time but one. the one time it was slow it was still good, we had just had to many drinks to really make any progress. 

For the reviewers that have read the book and thought ill of it, i think they only read it they didn't try and play it. as for the ones that claim there was no bestiary its not true all the iconic creatures are there and it takes a thimble of imagination to quadruple the number of creatures hopefully most gms can well.... imagine.

the reason i say they have to play it to review it better is that as mentioned this is not a flat d20 port with improvements like pathfinder.

For example our first sessions was slowed down alot because of character creation largely because in someways it runs crooked from the normal 3.5 logic.  But in a GOOD way the classes don't pigeon hole you to one thing you can be a wise fighter or a scrappy knife fighting street rat priest.
And it works together well, not forced or mechnically the same with a nice disciption.

My min maxer quickly found out by running the numbers that he didn't have dump stats that wouldn't hurt him at some point and made the closest thing to a well rounded character i've ever seen from him because he had to do more than boost INT. to be a good spellcaster.
(well he has the 3 stats needed for a mage at least )

Lifestyle and Prudence was a hurdle as well in character creation not sure why presentation maybe, but now that i understand it its just different not difficult.


2nd sessions was a breeze and fun as hell.  I heard " its my turn already" from the person that loses interest the quickest during drawn out scenes (which is usually combat in most games.)  she was excited enough about it to suggest playing it again the next day.

3rd session  saw more characters made, this went much faster and we had the 2 new people ready in under an hour.

4th session was the drunk one 

5th session went great , again very quick but option rich combat, (even social characters have something to do). We were also able to have social situations come up more so everyone got a chance to shine. 


As far as heroic vs deadly the game played very heroic but you can adjust campaign qualities easily and even on the fly.  So i could scare my players just by holding some action dice and chuckling evilly which actually worked better than actually activating anything in one case.


Only drawback for some is there is no "official setting"  but it is easy to convert and i feel like it would be easy to do on the fly once i understand the system better.

hmm so yeah i'm a convert all hail FC 

[Desertpuma]

Welcome to the fold

[Gentry]

For the reviewers that have read the book and thought ill of it, i think they only read it they didn't try and play it.

I get this impression from a LOT of the commentary the game's gotten, including some of the beefing that's happened on these very boards.  Anything can look weird when considered in a vaccuum. But I've never had a player beef about the mechanics of the game once they'd actually played. Playing is where the magic happens. The rest is just noise.

[ArawnNox]

For the reviewers that have read the book and thought ill of it, i think they only read it they didn't try and play it.

I get this impression from a LOT of the commentary the game's gotten, including some of the beefing that's happened on these very boards.  Anything can look weird when considered in a vaccuum. But I've never had a player beef about the mechanics of the game once they'd actually played. Playing is where the magic happens. The rest is just noise.

This is pretty true. When I first read the book, it was different, and looked good in theory, but once I sat down with my group and played it, and got to see how everything worked, I loved it. Most of the players had only done 3.5 for a campaign, and they really got into FC when I presented it to them

[Catodon]

"Only drawback for some is there is no "official setting"  but it is easy to convert and i feel like it would be easy to do on the fly once i understand the system better. "

Actually for me "no official setting" was the the main factor that made me decide to get Fantasy Craft. I'm tired of restrictive official settings. I like to define a world often cooperatively with players, nothing beats tailor made. If FC had had a setting I would not have read any further than the back cover blurb.

That said FC gives you everything to convert your favourite published setting too

Win Win

[@stroVal]

(or kenders, if someone really must be into THOSE)

Hey!! Kenders rule!!

[Banesfinger]

Hi, new to the boards (sorry for the thread resurrection):

I have a few questions about Fantasy Craft:
I'm currently DMing D&D4e, and while I find it a smooth system and my players enjoy the combat options (powers), the game/characters seem very combat focused.  Because of this, adventures are a never-ending string of combat encounters.

I have read many (MANY) reviews of F.C., but still have a few questions to determine if this would be the right fit for our group:

A) While I see that many classes are focused on things other than combat (a good thing), how does the game encourage/reward overcoming encounters in a non-combat way?  Is there set XP (?) for 'charming a princess', 'talking your way out of a fight', 'spying on a boardering kingdom', etc?

B) Big Boss Fights: 4e really breaks down on BB fights because of action limitations (e.g. 4 PC attacks vs 1 monster attack).  Does F.C. have anything new to add here?

C) Combat crunch: it looks like there are lots of new options for FC fights (intimidate, etc).  Does this slow down combat?  Has anyone compared the duration (real time) between similar fights?

D) Character crunch: it looks like there are more "layers" to PCs.  Is there a calculating character sheet/builder that can easily track all these modifiers?

Thanks in advance

[Golden Dragon]

A) While I see that many classes are focused on things other than combat (a good thing), how does the game encourage/reward overcoming encounters in a non-combat way?  Is there set XP (?) for 'charming a princess', 'talking your way out of a fight', 'spying on a boardering kingdom', etc?

B) Big Boss Fights: 4e really breaks down on BB fights because of action limitations (e.g. 4 PC attacks vs 1 monster attack).  Does F.C. have anything new to add here?

I'll take questions A and B. The characters get XP for these events when the GM gives XP for these events. Tautology aside, any adventure gives XP for meeting goals, which are often listed as "Objectives" at the end of the adventure. Meeting critical objectives also give reputation rewards. If you are writing an adventure, and want to give big rewards to non-combat activities, the tools are in your hand.

For handling an encounter without fighter, players can still receive full rewards. For meeting a (hostile) and overcoming whatever obstacle he represents, the players get the reward for "defeating" the NPC, regardless of the solution.

For item B, this was a design consideration, and you can dig around the boards for a discussion. There is an NPC quality (Frenzy, I think) that gives the NPC extra attack half-actions equal to the number of special characters in the PC party. At grade III, frenzy can be used every round. Just add Frenzy III to any big bad boss that you want, and you are good to go.

[EloiseCartwright]

I'm sure some of the number crunchers will chip in shortly.

A) Not set specifically, though it's designed so that XP is objective based as well as monster based.  The Objectives are GM dependant though.

B) FantasyCraft uses Dramatic Scenes for things like Boss Fights, which make the whole situation more dangerous. 4 PC's against 1 special NPC can still be a massacre, but the GM does have several options to mitigate this.

C) Usually PC's stick to their own little menu of options. You might have a few slow fights to start with, but once the characters click with their options they'll know what they're good at and stick with it in my experience.  It does seem to run faster than 3E, I don't know what else to compare it to.

D) Not at current. I use a spreadsheet to calculate a few things, though it's far from polished (don't tend to use it in game - copy it out to a paper copy, it's main use is to work out how many points I've spent on attributes and add up skill ranks.  To be honest while the character options can look daunting, it doesn't work out particularly harder to track compared to a 3E character.  

[Crafty_Alex]

Hi, new to the boards (sorry for the thread resurrection):

Hello, and welcome to our boards! Let's see if I can't help you here.

I have read many (MANY) reviews of F.C., but still have a few questions to determine if this would be the right fit for our group:

A) While I see that many classes are focused on things other than combat (a good thing), how does the game encourage/reward overcoming encounters in a non-combat way?  Is there set XP (?) for 'charming a princess', 'talking your way out of a fight', 'spying on a boardering kingdom', etc?

Absolutely. While monsters still have an XP bounty, our system actively encourages GMs to devise XP rewards based on the mission objectives, rather than murder This is part of Fantasy Craft's roots as a modern, espionage game (as it's devised from Spycraft). The "set XP" is not so set, since in some missions saving the princess might be secondary to, say, stealing a crown of command from the lich who's captured her, but there are definite guidelines for scripting the right amount of XP for the objective's importance.

B) Big Boss Fights: 4e really breaks down on BB fights because of action limitations (e.g. 4 PC attacks vs 1 monster attack).  Does F.C. have anything new to add here?

Sure do! We're both GMs and consequently are sensitive to the fact that big bads aren't so big or bad when faced by a skilled, finely honed party - so we give you the ability to fight dirty   One thing we did was increase the overall competence and toughness of special NPCs (the class of "big bad" NPCs) through increased durability and relative stats, the ability to cherry pick class abilities in ways PCs can not, a number of very nasty qualities (our version of NPC abilities) including the ability to never be outnumbered, to greatly multiply an NPCs attacks (frenzy), and to blunt the PCs ability to generate crits or pin the NPC down using failed saves (tough, cagey, and monstrous defense). You can even permanently raise the NPC's relative level above the PC's to screw with them accordingly Additionally, there are many campaign qualities, which can alter the game environment to tip the favor in either the GMs or the players' favor on the fly...

C) Combat crunch: it looks like there are lots of new options for FC fights (intimidate, etc).  Does this slow down combat?  Has anyone compared the duration (real time) between similar fights?

I don't think so, as most combat results are resolved in a single roll. Tricks and advanced actions (some of which work like at-will powers and others that work like x times per encounter powers in 4e) can add a layer of complexity if a player invests very heavily in them, but that's a player choice and not a default feature of the system. I'd figure as experienced 4e gamers you'd be familiar with using these sort of features, anyway

D) Character crunch: it looks like there are more "layers" to PCs.  Is there a calculating character sheet/builder that can easily track all these modifiers?

We do have something in the works on that front, and it should be pretty dang close. More...soon.

[Banesfinger]

Hello, and welcome to our boards! Let's see if I can't help you here.

Wow, thanks for the quick answers
(which actually answers another question: how fast/helpful/friendly are the forums, and do the designers watch the boards...which I now give you all a big thumbs up!)

After your (Golden Dragon, EloiseCartwright, Crafty Alex) answers, my group has fully bought into switching to Fantasy Craft!  Shocking, since they have invested about a million dollars into all the 4e books (and growing...arrrrrggg).

Our final concern (somewhat related to the calculating character sheet/builder):
One of the best parts of 4e was the Character Builder.  Everyone said that if it wasn't for that program, it would have been too cumbersome to track all of the values, and we would have quit 4e years ago.  But with the program, it made character creation a snap - even pumping out a high level PC in 20 minutes!

Just browsing the reviews of Fantasy Craft, it looks like you give characters more depth and options (e.g. Origin, Lifestyle, Legend, even the food you eat has meaning).  With all these options must come added bookkeeping, correct?  How cumbersome is this during game-play and character generation (remember - I have a group that is spoiled by 4e's character builder program)?

Thanks.