Crafters Viability

[Tyralias]

Hi all, new to the forum, I was just curious as to the viability of a pure crafter with the fantasy craft books, I have been eyeing the crafting feats for some time now and have decided to take the plunge.

Mainly I was considering starting up as a Keeper / Sage and trying to take as many of the crafting feats as possible (starting with the crafting basics line). I guess my main question is what abilities does crafting open up and are there any 'must have's'?

Thanks in advance.

[Agent 333]

Depends on the GM, setting, and tone of the adventure. As a crafter, you become exponentially more powerful the more downtime you have. If the campaign is short on downtime, then being a crafter is next to worthless. However, if you regularly get a few weeks off between adventures, or even mid-adventure, then you'll be awesome.
As far as must haves go, I'd recommend Alchemy Basics just so you can craft healing potions, but again, that depends on the campaign.

[EloiseCartwright]

If I were the GM, I would strive to allow downtime if a character had options that utilised it. But your GM may vary, I'd seriously talk to your GM about it and discuss how viable it is in their planned game, and whether they can adjust to allow for some downtime.

On a related note, does the Keeper's level 1 ability actually do anything for Crafting, as you can't technically fail a check?

[Tyralias]

I've been wondering that myself Eloise, the only situation I can think of is a critical fail, but there it says it cant be used making the skill... pointless?  A possibility could be to allow the character to roll twice when crafting and pick the more preferable? Not sure what the intention is with that class ability.

As for speaking with the GM, I will do, I guess another question is, How much acid / bombs and the likes would I be needing to craft for an adventure if its going to be combat heavy? I've an eye on the alchemist as he looks like a very intriguing expert class.

Thank you all for your replies =)

[Doublebond]

On a related note, does the Keeper's level 1 ability actually do anything for Crafting, as you can't technically fail a check?

I haven't checked the ability recently, but I do believe it has the provision "if multiple grades of success are available, you achieve the lowest grade possible." In addition, I recall crafting working along the following lines: the character rolls a crafting check; he generates an amount of hypothetical money dependent on his result. He then constructs as many of the item he is attempting to craft as he would be able to buy with the sum of hypothetical money he has generated. As I understand it, then, if you don't role well enough with the check to generate enough hypothetical cash, then you "fail" the crafting check, right?

[ArawnNox]

Don't forget that Crafting has other uses besides making things. Dismantle and Improvise are checks against the item's complexity.

As to how viable a crafting focused Keeper is? Well, I wouldn't say it's just limited to just downtime.
If the campaign has a combat focus, snag Martial Arts and Master's Art with Intelligence as the substituted attribute and you can hold your own in a fight. Remember that there is more to do in a fight besides attack. You're a master of your chosen skills, and you can control the battlefield with those actions, like Tire, Taunt and Distract.
If the game is more Cloak and Dagger espionage, toss a Trade Secret on Bluff or Impress. Besides that, you'll be the go-to guy for poisons.
Talk with your GM and find out what kind of game he's going to run. If your set on being a crafter, regardless, then get to know the mechanics for crafting items and how the skill works. You can improvise items in the field, make sure the party is stocked on useful potions, keep their gear in top condition, produce useful magic items geared for the adventure (glowing rods for cave exploring rather than torches, for example). You won't be combat support, but you will be logistics.

[aegis]

Mainly I was considering starting up as a Keeper / Sage and trying to take as many of the crafting feats as possible (starting with the crafting basics line). I guess my main question is what abilities does crafting open up and are there any 'must have's'?

After a few play sessions, I can say without a doubt that you don't need to multiply Gear feats, at all. Even if you're a crafter, you will generally spend most of your downtime crafting a single (or two, max) category of gear, most probably the ones for which you have the Crafting feat chain. The rest of your feats will serve you admirably for any other purposes: Basic Skill feats, great if Keeper is your first-level class, or any other general purpose feat (Basic Combat, Chance, Style, etc.). I can only insist so much on how I Can Swim is goddamn supercool for a highly skilled character!

Well, concerning these Gear feats again, focus on the absolute necessity. The Crafting feat chain is a must have, indeed. It will dramatically increase your crafting abilities. Then, you may want to pick an additional chain depending on your specialty. Alchemy if you craft potions, Essence or Charm if you craft weapons or armors, Scribing if you prefer scrolls, etc. But even that is strictly optional. Even with just the Crafting feat chain focused on metalworking, you are going to make a lot of happy adventurers among your group, particularly if the GM limits the gear that's available to adventurers on the market ("no, we don't have a PA 6/cavalry/keen 8 longsword, dear sir").

I insist on the non-necessity of Gear feats not because they are not cool - they are - but because you honestly won't enjoy all of them as much as you would other feats. Downtime is not that much a luxury, at least in the campaigns I play. Focus, and use the remaining feats for adventuring purposes. That will allow you to enjoy the adventures just as much as your friends and not wait blatantly for downtime while being a skill monkey in the meantime.

And to answer your last question, yes, the Alchemist is a killer. Especially at level 6+. However, even for combat-heavy sessions, I wouldn't craft too much potions because they spoil at the end of the adventure. However, as soon as you have the distilled upgrade for free (as an Alchemist), then craft as many as you like.

[Sletchman]

I really agree with aegis here - make sure you don't focus too much on just crafting.  I've played a Sage / Alchemist, and it was awesome fun.  I grabbed Trade Secret as my Cross-Training ability and only took the Alchemy and Crafting B/M/S chains, and used the rest of my feats and options to give him more things to do during the non-downtime portions of the game.  Even without heaps of feats I certainly didn't feel like my crafting ability was lacking in any way.  If you plan on making magic items then obviously grab some of the Charm / Essence chains, but I personally didn't plan on making any.

[Tyralias]

Thank you all, thats answered a lot of questions for me, the hint about martial arts seems like a good one to keep it usable in combat and not hiding in the back.

And yes, the free distilled upgrade looks amazing.

So yes a big thank you and i'll think it over =)

[warlock69]

I built a Burglar with the Crafting (metalworking) feat chain for a game in a magical renaissance setting.  I wanted to make a saboteur type of character.  He turned out to be a real badass.  With the Crafting feats, he was able to quickly assemble traps to execute various strategies.  He didn't have any exciting melee battles, but he was pretty cool crippling or blowing up his enemies after he was long gone.

I agree with aegis.  You don't need to take every variation of Crafting feat.  Decide what your character's focus is, and choose your skill focuses accordingly.  The Keeper isn't necessarily the class to play either.  If you just want a character that is resourceful in different scenarios, you may just need to take a few feats.  How is the character using his crafting abilities?  How does his crafting skills tie into your character concept?  With your character concept in mind, start exploring your options as to classes & feats that fit.

[Desertpuma]

Consider if you will ... a Courtier/Alchemist with a high level of Crafting ...

[royalfa]

FYI

I have a PCs in my campaign that is a priest pursuing the alchemist expert class.
She has access to this new path because his alignment:

PATH OF CRAFT
Craft I:  You gain the Crafting Basics feat.
Craft II: You may cast Identify I and Repair II once per scene.
Craft III: You gain the Crafting Mastery feat.
Craft IV: You may roll twice when making Crafting checks, keeping the result you prefer
Craft V:  You gain the Crafting Supremacy feat

She will level up (3rd) the next session and already has the first step in this path.
At the moment she spend her downtime making musical instruments

I gave her instant rewards (reputation especially) because she "role plays" her priest with this, and in combat
she prove herself quite valuable because she can strike with her "ritual weapon" without trouble.

Good gaming